Crosswords2 mins ago
Civil Unrest Anyone?
Who'd like to join those like me in protest against Johnson's undemocratic behaviour?
Answers
The thing everyone on both sides seems to be losing sight of in the wild clamour to have their own way is that each and every person has a right, and in fact a duty, to do what they consider right for the country, and that includes Remainers. I still hold that leaving the EU will be catastrophic economically
00:11 Thu 29th Aug 2019
Not at all, been saying the system needs upgrading for quite a while now. And have admitted that regaining sovereignty isn't a national panacea but at least it would be our elite messing things up and needing to be put in their place. That's more doable.
In the short term there's chucking out those who behaved badly come the next GE. But we also need to reform both the upper house, which should be 100% elected, and the framework which specifies what each of the houses can and can't do. Preventing future continual delaying of that which the public has voted for, is an obvious thing to do.
In the short term there's chucking out those who behaved badly come the next GE. But we also need to reform both the upper house, which should be 100% elected, and the framework which specifies what each of the houses can and can't do. Preventing future continual delaying of that which the public has voted for, is an obvious thing to do.
//Leave voters are complaining because the vote to leave an undemocratic EU is being thwarted by an undemocratic government. Ironic, huh?//
I'm not complaining of that, Zacs. I am complaining that the vote to leave - made by both the electorate and Parliament - is being thwarted by the intransigence of that very same Parliament. That Parliament, having passed a law providing for our departure (modifying it twice earlier this year) now seeks to overturn it. Basically the "Honourable" Members don't like the current law (which makes no mention of it being applicable only if a deal can be agreed) which they themselves passed. Having successfully delayed Brexit by seven months they were given an extension of our membership until October. In the intervening five months since then they have achieved absolutely nothing and are now complaining that the additional five days of prorogation is undemocratic. They now want our departure only to be possible provided it is done by agreement with the EU.
I'm not complaining of that, Zacs. I am complaining that the vote to leave - made by both the electorate and Parliament - is being thwarted by the intransigence of that very same Parliament. That Parliament, having passed a law providing for our departure (modifying it twice earlier this year) now seeks to overturn it. Basically the "Honourable" Members don't like the current law (which makes no mention of it being applicable only if a deal can be agreed) which they themselves passed. Having successfully delayed Brexit by seven months they were given an extension of our membership until October. In the intervening five months since then they have achieved absolutely nothing and are now complaining that the additional five days of prorogation is undemocratic. They now want our departure only to be possible provided it is done by agreement with the EU.
Nothing undemocratic about it - perfectly normal procedure. Given the virtual closure of Parliament for the Conference season, it only amounts to about the usual number of days of prorogation before a new Parliamentary term. Storm in a bucket. Or are you saying that the Queen is party to an anti-democratic putsch? That would be somewhat unwise, to say the least.
Perhaps you can help me out here, Zacs:
“….your post’s last couple of sentences state that the process is undemocratic,”
My last couple of sentences:
“In the intervening five months since then they have achieved absolutely nothing and are now complaining that the additional five days of prorogation is undemocratic. They now want our departure only to be possible provided it is done by agreement with the EU.”
I’m not sure what process you say I state is undemocratic.
“….your post’s last couple of sentences state that the process is undemocratic,”
My last couple of sentences:
“In the intervening five months since then they have achieved absolutely nothing and are now complaining that the additional five days of prorogation is undemocratic. They now want our departure only to be possible provided it is done by agreement with the EU.”
I’m not sure what process you say I state is undemocratic.
The prorogation device is obviously a dirty trick to limit the time (by however little) available to the Remain camp to force through a law which traps us in the EU. And this poster is disappointed when people like JRM pretend it is anything other, seeing as I like honesty and despise deceit.
But the ululations about the death of democracy and "this is a constitutional outrage" (not to mention Ekaterinberg republicans feigning concern for embarrassment caused to Brenda) are a bit rich coming from people who have spent all their energies in the last three years trying to reverse the result of the 2016 referendum.
But the ululations about the death of democracy and "this is a constitutional outrage" (not to mention Ekaterinberg republicans feigning concern for embarrassment caused to Brenda) are a bit rich coming from people who have spent all their energies in the last three years trying to reverse the result of the 2016 referendum.
NJ, I can’t help it if you can’t interpret what you actually wrote. You might dress it up in all sorts of ways but you are on record as saying the Brexit process is undemocratic. Being cowardly and making it out to be someone else’s words does you no favours. You’re still a leave voter who can’t wait for us to leave the EU and hand over the reins to people who, on a daily basis, you criticise for being undemocratic! What sort of hypocrisy is that?
