Tonight's The Night

[Khandro]

'Downing Street has confirmed Parliament is to be prorogued after the close of business tonight, with MPs to return on the 14th October for a Queen’s Speech.

The Queen’s original order allowed Boris to pick any time between today and the 12th. Hilariously, Bercow has to announce the prorogation order in Parliament, which he won’t be too pleased about'.

[ToraToraTora]

" They won't budge on the principle behind the Backstop," - there you go that is completely unacceptable even to the HOQ, so we are at an impasse.

[Jackdaw33]

//The EU is not the enemy.\\

You could have fooled me.

[jim360]

Would you care to put that to the test, JD?

Really it's quite a simple message: Brexiteers' strategy right now isn't working, and TTT's posts reveal why. Everyone who isn't with them is referred to as enemy or a collaborator.

As long as you maintain that attitude you haven't a chance in hell of solving this. Accept that everyone in the UK wants the best for the country; accept that we will be working with, rather than against, the EU, in any future you could care to mention; accept that the solution requires working with Parliament, rather than against it.

And then you either solve this or you guarantee that the electorate will be sufficiently on your side come the next election.

[dannyk13]

Jim //The EU is not the enemy. It's stunning that you refer to them as so.//
You could hardly call them bosom friends.

[ToraToraTora]

jim: " suggested elsewhere that asking for perpetual extensions might actually be an idea worth trying as an alternative "threat": tell the EU that either we resolve this, or the UK will drag their feet (and potentially mess the EU around by interfering in EU Parliament, EU Council, EU Commission decisions, etc), or the EU must trigger a No Deal. " - yeah we'll stay in under EUSSR rule indefinitely, paying £1bn a month, terrifying! Only someone who is so desparate that we stay in the EUSSR would suggest that one! if they want us out then let them refuse our request to kick the can down the road before we even make it.

[ToraToraTora]

the problem is that all this Quisling carry on just knobbles our negotiating position in front of the enemy. Have these spats behind closed doors but doing what they are doing just gives bread to the enemy.

[jim360]

I'm not suggesting, TTT, a continued succession of last-minute bills. I'm suggesting a long-term proposal: pass an Act of Parliament that proposes that every time exit day approaches and there isn't a deal then the PM will request a further three-month extension. All Brexiteers seem capable of seeing is the £1 billion/month (and actually it's rather a lot less than this anyway), but are completely blind to all that the EU will have to pay for this. A UK that is always on the verge of leaving can drag on the EU's agenda in all sorts of ways. It would be the equivalent of a landlord being happy to have a disruptive tenant that is always deliberately breaking things in the house, leaving dishes unwashed, holding rowdy parties, etc. Even if they paid twice as much as usual tenants any landlord would still kick them out before too long. Oh, and also keeps giving two months' notice but never actually leaves. It's naive to think that the EU would be happy to allow that to drag on.

[jim360]

And, again: the EU is not our enemy. Remain, Deal, No Deal: we will have to work closely with the EU in future. It's monumentally short-sighted to continue to see them in a way that is ultimately self-harming.

[Gromit]

A ‘No Deal’ Brexit can no longer be averted, there is not enough time.
We will leave on 31st October.

That is clearly against the will of Parliament, and that is very dangerous. Boris’ only hope is that Brexit is a fantastic success. We will have to wait and see.

[ToraToraTora]

ok so if they'd see it like that then surely they'd refuse our first request to extend?

[ToraToraTora]

jim; "And, again: the EU is not our enemy. Remain, Deal, No Deal: we will have to work closely with the EU in future. " - for the purposes of freeing ourselves they are the opposition. Of course we'll need to have a friendly relationship after but for now they are the chains that bind us.

[ToraToraTora]

gromit 15:24, I so much hope you are correct.

[douglas9401]

A solution may be a ways off yet if our leaders have the same mentality as AB Dads Army correspondents who insist on using WWII terminology to describe fellow citizens as traitors and the like.

It's quite unbelievable that editorial and moderating operatives have let it go on for as long as they have, given sensitivities over a lot less on screen, for example playfully punning usernames.

[Gromit]

Tora,
I hope I am wrong. Defying parliament, and using dubious tactics to do so will have repercussions. Boris may win this battle, but his political future does not look good. He has created too many enemies.

Douglas,
Sadly, Tora etal are just parroting what so called

[dannyk13]

Douglas// traitors and the like.It's quite unbelievable that editorial and moderating operatives have let it go on for as long as they have,//
Not aimed at AB members therefore not against Site Rules.

[Jackdaw33]

Only three people to blame for this unholy mess; Heath, Major and Cameron.

[douglas9401]

Roolz is roolz, gotcha.

[jim360]

Bercow just announced that he is stepping down either tonight or at the end of October.

[dannyk13]

Douglas //Roolz is roolz,//
Exactly, I suggest that you scroll down to Site Rules and read them.

[jim360]

// ok so if they'd see it like that then surely they'd refuse our first request to extend? //

Yes, but isn't that what you want anyway?