ChatterBank1 min ago
No Diff-Dep-Ref2 ...........
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Better call Mel Gibson!
Better call Mel Gibson!
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Khandro, here's an extract from The Telegaph's account today of Boris Johnson's letter to Ms Sturgeon:
"In a brief, six-paragraph response to the First Minister's request, Mr Johnson said she should respect the promise she and Alex Salmond made before the 2014 vote that it was a "once in a generation event"."
Please note the specific words I claimed he - like so many others here on AB and elsewhere over the years - had used; namely, “the promise”.
What I asked for in my earlier contribution above was any least glimmer of evidence that any such so-called ‘promise’ was ever made by anyone, never mind Mr Salmond or Ms Sturgeon!
"In a brief, six-paragraph response to the First Minister's request, Mr Johnson said she should respect the promise she and Alex Salmond made before the 2014 vote that it was a "once in a generation event"."
Please note the specific words I claimed he - like so many others here on AB and elsewhere over the years - had used; namely, “the promise”.
What I asked for in my earlier contribution above was any least glimmer of evidence that any such so-called ‘promise’ was ever made by anyone, never mind Mr Salmond or Ms Sturgeon!
Quizmonster, yes indeed - the word "opportunity" is worth noting. The clear implication is that the expectation was that the opportunity would not be repeated and that after the result either Scotland would become independent or else things would continue as before. Things are not continuing as before and it is very evident that large numbers of people in Scotland want another opportunity. Why English people on AB should be so against that or even particularly interested at all eludes me, given that the sentiment toward Scots and Scotland is so soaked in derision and much else less than flattering. Describing just what the mindset of the Scottish electorate was beyond what the result tells us is not, I think, within the ambit of those who were not there at the time (perhaps not even in the UK) whatever their own position on Scottish independence.
It is all academic anyway - Sturgeon can whine as much as likes, but the fact of the matter is she doesn’t have a dog in the fight. Only Westminster has the gift of granting a second vote, and they have much more important things to deal with than the irrelevancy of a second vote.
Just after the GE, Sturgeon stated the SNP had a “mandate” for a second vote; that was, and remains, factually incorrect.
Just after the GE, Sturgeon stated the SNP had a “mandate” for a second vote; that was, and remains, factually incorrect.
//After all, we mustn't cater for people who change their minds all the time.//
You can’t keep on asking the electorate to vote on fundamental constitutional issues every few years. The Brexit vote (or rather the behaviour of some who refused to accept the result) demonstrates that. It makes governments – who should have better things to do – neglect their core responsibilities whilst the constitutional issues are resolved. Even the Scottish Parish Council has better things to do that ask its voters to consider an alternative form of dependence. They’ve done it once and the result was fairly conclusive. It was more conclusive that the EU referendum was and even many Remainers did not believe a second vote was desirable.
//"...and Ms Sturgeon is committed to Cornton Vale..."
Ahem!//
Gosh doggie! Thanks. That article is more than two years old so I guess the prison is completely gone. I wonder where she’ll go. The report says “With the demolition of Cornton Vale under way, there is no turning back on our plans for a smarter, more progressive approach to managing women in custody, ensuring they are prepared for life after release.” I wonder how they will prepare her for “life after release”. Perhaps they’ll counsel her to stop banging on about Scottish Independence and set about tackling some of the problems which Scotland faces, such as those mentioned by Khandro.
//Why English people on AB should be so against that or even particularly interested at all eludes me…//
They’re interested, Karl, because, incredible as it may seem, the Union is not exclusively Scotland’s Bailiwick. It is the Union of Scotland and England. More than that, currently maintaining the Scots in the manner to which they have become accustomed costs English taxpayers a tidy sum. Breaking the Union will no doubt cost them a whole lot more as Scotland will need considerable help as it makes the transition to independence. That’s why the English have an interest.
You can’t keep on asking the electorate to vote on fundamental constitutional issues every few years. The Brexit vote (or rather the behaviour of some who refused to accept the result) demonstrates that. It makes governments – who should have better things to do – neglect their core responsibilities whilst the constitutional issues are resolved. Even the Scottish Parish Council has better things to do that ask its voters to consider an alternative form of dependence. They’ve done it once and the result was fairly conclusive. It was more conclusive that the EU referendum was and even many Remainers did not believe a second vote was desirable.
//"...and Ms Sturgeon is committed to Cornton Vale..."
Ahem!//
Gosh doggie! Thanks. That article is more than two years old so I guess the prison is completely gone. I wonder where she’ll go. The report says “With the demolition of Cornton Vale under way, there is no turning back on our plans for a smarter, more progressive approach to managing women in custody, ensuring they are prepared for life after release.” I wonder how they will prepare her for “life after release”. Perhaps they’ll counsel her to stop banging on about Scottish Independence and set about tackling some of the problems which Scotland faces, such as those mentioned by Khandro.
//Why English people on AB should be so against that or even particularly interested at all eludes me…//
They’re interested, Karl, because, incredible as it may seem, the Union is not exclusively Scotland’s Bailiwick. It is the Union of Scotland and England. More than that, currently maintaining the Scots in the manner to which they have become accustomed costs English taxpayers a tidy sum. Breaking the Union will no doubt cost them a whole lot more as Scotland will need considerable help as it makes the transition to independence. That’s why the English have an interest.
KARL: "Why English people on AB should be so against that or even particularly interested at all eludes me" - what gives you the idea rthat the English are against it? Most of us would grant different dependence tomorrow, Scotland is a Millstone to us. We are just sick of the whining we get as thanks for subsidising them.
This English person is. I see no reason to split up the family. But it seems some only want to stay if resources are unfairly allocated in their favour. We've put up with it, I see no reason to want a split in order to correct it; although it'd be nice for the whole of the UK to want a fairer distribution.
//NJ, what help would an independent Scotland require from the rest of the UK and how much would it cost English taxpayers?//
In the event of Scotland gaining independence there will undoubtedly be calls for "transitional support". This will be to wean them off the vast lorryloads of cash that make their way up the M6 every night and sustain them until (they think) they join the EU and are given German and French dosh instead . God knows how much it will cost but I wager it will be substantial.
In the event of Scotland gaining independence there will undoubtedly be calls for "transitional support". This will be to wean them off the vast lorryloads of cash that make their way up the M6 every night and sustain them until (they think) they join the EU and are given German and French dosh instead . God knows how much it will cost but I wager it will be substantial.
//...do you think the EUSSR will be keen to take on another liability judge?//
No I don't (though the Scots could bribe them with their fishing rights). But overall I think not. In any case, if they stick to their own rules (which they've been known to do occasionally) the Scots should not gain admittance due to their excessive deficit.
No I don't (though the Scots could bribe them with their fishing rights). But overall I think not. In any case, if they stick to their own rules (which they've been known to do occasionally) the Scots should not gain admittance due to their excessive deficit.
Well, so far there is not a shred of the evidence I called for yesterday as regards the oft-claimed “promise” - from Mr Salmond and/or Ms Sturgeon - that any attempt to repeat the 2014 Scottish Independence Referendum would be delayed for a ‘generation’ or a ‘lifetime’. Why am I not surprised?
The major raison d’etre of the SNP is Scottish Independence. What sane leader of that party would ever make a promise to abandon that idea for decades? It is as plain as a pikestaff that no such ”promise” ever was, or ever could have been, made. Our Prime Minister was simply in default mode…being economical with the truth…when he said it was.
The major raison d’etre of the SNP is Scottish Independence. What sane leader of that party would ever make a promise to abandon that idea for decades? It is as plain as a pikestaff that no such ”promise” ever was, or ever could have been, made. Our Prime Minister was simply in default mode…being economical with the truth…when he said it was.
Q.M.
It is true that during the independence referendum campaign, both Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon used the phrase “once in a lifetime opportunity” or “once in a generation opportunity” to define the political stakes facing the Scottish electorate.
Note the foreword written by Alex Salmond to the Scottish Government’s independence White Paper (Scotland’s Future, 26 November 2013): “The debate we are engaged in as a nation is about the future of all of us lucky enough to live in this diverse and vibrant country. It is a rare and precious moment in the history of Scotland - a once in a generation opportunity to chart a better way.”
Fact Check
It is true that during the independence referendum campaign, both Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon used the phrase “once in a lifetime opportunity” or “once in a generation opportunity” to define the political stakes facing the Scottish electorate.
Note the foreword written by Alex Salmond to the Scottish Government’s independence White Paper (Scotland’s Future, 26 November 2013): “The debate we are engaged in as a nation is about the future of all of us lucky enough to live in this diverse and vibrant country. It is a rare and precious moment in the history of Scotland - a once in a generation opportunity to chart a better way.”
Fact Check
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