Only Females Menstruate

[Deskdiary]

Am I missing something here?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8083431/Exeter-University-economics-lecturer-branded-transphobic-LGBT-feminist-students.html

"The row erupted when Dr Poen responded to a tweet by a Twitter user called 'Lilo the Autistic Queer' which read: 'Not everyone who menstruates is female. Not everyone who is female menstruates. Let's shift our language.'"

I hate to break it to 'Lilo the Autistic Queer', but the ONLY people who menstruate are women.

On a scale on 1 to 10, with 10 being you're a total ***, how much of a *** is 'Lilo the Autistic Queer'?

[jim360]

And as for the pronoun business, we haven't "always" done that. History and language are more subtle in that regard than you are giving them credit for.

If you choose to use pronouns to mean sex rather than gender, then I can respect that, but please understand that it isn't pretence to use them to mean gender identities instead. Language can sometimes be open to interpretation, and is certainly fluid enough to allow us to both be right, for neither of us to be pretending.

[pixie374]

It is pretending... and you know it. He, him, his, male, man, etc... has referred to males, certainly as long as I have been alive. Your attempt at trying to look back... is just coming across as dishonest. Even the Roman's had "neuter".
In any case, if we start to use "she" etc for men, as if it doesn't matter,how are women supposed to represent themselves, as a biological class?
And if it really makes no difference, why are men so keen to join in?

[pixie374]

And I don't "choose" to use them for sex, Jim. That is what we all do.

[pixie374]

Obviously....

[jim360]

I've done some digging on the stats. At best it refers to trans women who were murdered, which is obviously a small and highly selective group. There is no other source I can find than that, and even then it's been distorted out of context.

http://www.oas.org/en/iachr/lgtbi/docs/Annex-Registry-Violence-LGBTI.pdf (page 4)

It *is* true that there are concerns about higher mental health and suicide rates among trans people, but that doesn't drag the life expectancy down so low.

[pixie374]

Sometimes, I can't believe some of the conversations necessary on AB. Who would guess, you would end up explaining to an "intelligent" adult, the difference between male and female...

[jim360]

Why looking further back in history should come across as dishonest is anyone's guess. It's clearly relevant how language has evolved over longer than your lifetime or mine.

I'm sorry we disagree on this. But I am not pretending anything, and your inability to recognise the fluidity of language isn't an argument against it.

[pixie374]

Thanks for trying, anyway, Jim x

[Mozz71]

Whatever your beliefs on gender fluidity, calling someone by their preferred pronoun is polite and only right. As I said previously, anyone going out of their way to deliberately insult somebody is a complete a-hole.

If somebody wants to identify as a different gender, it is their right to do so and should be respected. If you can't bring yourself to be respectful, then try to use they/them instead.

If you can't do that, better you don't bother talking to them, or better still, to stop airing your opinion on them at all.

[jim360]

Just before I go for now, the point I was making earlier is that you *don't* need to explain the difference to me between male and female. We agree on that. I just don't see that it extends to pronouns, which -- to my mind, and to many other people's -- are about how we see people.

[pixie374]

Language is not even the point, Jim. The problem is, that people then start to take it literally. Unless you are denying that men have been put into women's prisons and gone on to rape them... broken women's world records in sports... walked into women's changing rooms and toilets... the language hasn't changed, just a minority want to interpret it differently.
I don't know the answer to this (and frankly, it makes no difference anyway), but at what point before, were men and women confused with each other?

[pixie374]

Jim, of course it extends to pronouns... it's just truth. And as I said, that is not where it stopped, is it?

[Buenchico]

The question isn't about 'biological women', Birdie, 1971. It's about 'females'. When I've been carrying out travel surveys, interviewing members of the public, I've met several people who were obviously 'biological women' but who would become infuriated if I ticked the 'female' box on the response sheet as they were NOT female but non-binary.

Such non-binary people AREN'T 'female' but they CAN menstruate. Hence the statement "only females menstruate" is both wrong and grossly offensive to such people.

[Mozz71]

//men have been put into women's prisons and gone on to rape them... broken women's world records in sports... walked into women's changing rooms and toilets... //

None of these things have ever happened because of a pronoun Pixie. I'm not sure whether the first one has happened, and I'm certain the second hasn't.

[pixie374]

Chris, biological women are always female.
You seem happy to not insult men who lie, while quite happy to insult women.
Do you really believe that men and women are the same, except women have a few more "parts"?

[pixie374]

They have all happened, mozz. Because people are now starting to take it literally.
At first, women were well-known for just accepting the odd man in their group. It has since gone so much further than that... maybe look into it a bit more?
I have said less on this recently, because things have just begun to start to be publicised now, and everyone will soon see for themselves.

[Buenchico]

>>> Chris, biological women are always female

That statement would certainly offend the non-binary people that I've interviewed!

[pixie374]

Chris, you aren't daft. And it is nothing to do with offense, or "non-binary".
If you really think biology is transphobic... have a word with God. I didn't invent it!