Azes 2740: Can’t Work Out The Code...
Crosswords1 min ago
Personal Freedom?
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This piece gives pause for thought - at what point does the protection of the population violate civil liberties?
In America, a culture far more twitchy about perceived rights to curb any of its freedoms, the notion of a government dictating just about anything designed to keep the public safe from itself meets with howls of protest and quoting the Constitution.
Over here we are slightly more reasonable, but the 'mask' question has caused similar debates to spring up.
Do you feel that you have a right not to wear a mask if you choose not to, because it infringes on your freedom of choice, or do you feel that mandatory mask wearing and enforcement is justified for the good of the majority, and on that basis, personal freedom needs to take a back seat?
- just click the 'Free Browse' button.
This piece gives pause for thought - at what point does the protection of the population violate civil liberties?
In America, a culture far more twitchy about perceived rights to curb any of its freedoms, the notion of a government dictating just about anything designed to keep the public safe from itself meets with howls of protest and quoting the Constitution.
Over here we are slightly more reasonable, but the 'mask' question has caused similar debates to spring up.
Do you feel that you have a right not to wear a mask if you choose not to, because it infringes on your freedom of choice, or do you feel that mandatory mask wearing and enforcement is justified for the good of the majority, and on that basis, personal freedom needs to take a back seat?
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I don't think we are as selfish as Americans so the vast majority of Brits will comply with mask wearing without hesitation. Those Brits who won’t wear a mask are not doing it to uphold their freedom, they are just too stupid to understand the importance of doing so.
There is also the matter of who is telling you to mask up.
If the EU were telling us we all must all wear a mask, then half of Brits would not wear them.
There is also the matter of who is telling you to mask up.
If the EU were telling us we all must all wear a mask, then half of Brits would not wear them.
" they are just too stupid to understand the importance of doing so. "
That is rather unfair, regardless of the "freedom" issue.
There isn't a clearcut link between mask wearing and virus control, in the same way that there is a pretty obvious link between wearing a seatbelt and avoiding death or serius injury in the event of an accident. It's done because it might well help.
Of course people obeject to these things because they don't like being told what to do in the privacy of their own cars, etc, but one thing that also makes the mask wearing a bit different is the thought that it might be selfish not to, whereas in the case of seatbelts it's largely a matter of self preservation.
That is rather unfair, regardless of the "freedom" issue.
There isn't a clearcut link between mask wearing and virus control, in the same way that there is a pretty obvious link between wearing a seatbelt and avoiding death or serius injury in the event of an accident. It's done because it might well help.
Of course people obeject to these things because they don't like being told what to do in the privacy of their own cars, etc, but one thing that also makes the mask wearing a bit different is the thought that it might be selfish not to, whereas in the case of seatbelts it's largely a matter of self preservation.
I do feel a little cheesed off when I am struggling with glasses, mask, sweat dripping and an inability to see much due to either the misting up of my specs or the removal of said specs and I see and hear others telling the world that they will not be told what to do by anyone. I am attempting to protect everyone else from me and possible covid and those caring people are determined to share their potential infection with me...... Some people are simply selfish and perhaps even dangerous....
If it affected no-one else other than the mask (non)wearer, i wouldn't give a toss who did or didn't. I would regard it as natural selection in action. Unfortunately it's one of those things that affects others, like smoking, or driving while drunk, so i think people should be mature and co-operate. If people can't, they should stay at home and order everything online.
//I don't think we are as selfish as Americans so the vast majority of Brits will comply with mask wearing without hesitation. Those Brits who won’t wear a mask are not doing it to uphold their freedom, they are just too stupid to understand the importance of doing so.//
Well, well. Lots of assumptions (and insults) there to be sure.
Many more Brits would perhaps happily comply with wearing face coverings if they could be convinced (a) that it actually reduces transmission to a significant degree and (b) that it did not place the wearer and at a considerably increased risk. The first is by no means clear cut. The efficiency of a facemask is obviously determined to a great degree by its construction - what it is made of, how it is made and how well it fits - and how it is worn. The government's contribution to that is to tell people how to make one from an old T-shirt. You only have to look around to see how poorly some are made and how poorly some of them fit.
This last point brings us on to (b). Because most of them fit poorly they need constant adjustment. As well as that, most people seem to prefer to remove and replace them when they leave and enter places where they need to wear them (because, particularly in hot weather, few people want to wear them for a moment longer than necessary). They hang them from their ears, strap them round their neck or stuff them in their pocket between times. This means the risk of transmission to the wearer from possibly infected hands is far greater because it is much easier to keep your hands off your face when there is no mask to fiddle with.
The Deputy Chief Medical Officer for England, Jenny Harries, is on record as saying she believes face masks cause more trouble than they prevent. I have it on very good authority that people untrained in the use of PPE are likely to put themselves at far greater risk of infection that the minimal risk they mitigate for others.
I have opted out of wearing face coverings. My (possible) altruism towards others does not extend to increasing the risk to myself. I have not taken this decision because I want to protect my rights or because I am stupid. I've taken it because I have thought the matter through for myself, done some research and reached my own conclusions rather that simply accepting all of the increasingly copious quantities of nonsense and drivel that is spewing forth daily from this government.
Well, well. Lots of assumptions (and insults) there to be sure.
Many more Brits would perhaps happily comply with wearing face coverings if they could be convinced (a) that it actually reduces transmission to a significant degree and (b) that it did not place the wearer and at a considerably increased risk. The first is by no means clear cut. The efficiency of a facemask is obviously determined to a great degree by its construction - what it is made of, how it is made and how well it fits - and how it is worn. The government's contribution to that is to tell people how to make one from an old T-shirt. You only have to look around to see how poorly some are made and how poorly some of them fit.
This last point brings us on to (b). Because most of them fit poorly they need constant adjustment. As well as that, most people seem to prefer to remove and replace them when they leave and enter places where they need to wear them (because, particularly in hot weather, few people want to wear them for a moment longer than necessary). They hang them from their ears, strap them round their neck or stuff them in their pocket between times. This means the risk of transmission to the wearer from possibly infected hands is far greater because it is much easier to keep your hands off your face when there is no mask to fiddle with.
The Deputy Chief Medical Officer for England, Jenny Harries, is on record as saying she believes face masks cause more trouble than they prevent. I have it on very good authority that people untrained in the use of PPE are likely to put themselves at far greater risk of infection that the minimal risk they mitigate for others.
I have opted out of wearing face coverings. My (possible) altruism towards others does not extend to increasing the risk to myself. I have not taken this decision because I want to protect my rights or because I am stupid. I've taken it because I have thought the matter through for myself, done some research and reached my own conclusions rather that simply accepting all of the increasingly copious quantities of nonsense and drivel that is spewing forth daily from this government.
As I understand it, wearing a mask is now a matter of law in many indoor settings (eg shops, public transport), and more or less everywhere else from this Saturday. Rightly or wrongly, I'd assume this should come into the picture when making a decision. It's no longer something you can "opt out" of without risking a fine -- and even if you hold that the evidence for their efficacy is tenuous I just don't see why it could be so offensive to just put a mask on when you need to. It's a mild inconvenience -- I can't say I've enjoyed the times I've worn mine -- but no more than that.
The real issue here is there is a debate to be had. I don't know how to fix it but we need information on what works and everyone doing different things doesn't help that. Both sides assume a different risk/reward value, if they didn't they'd all be doing the same thing. Personally, if an establishment asks me wear one then I will do with no complaint and if I don't have to then I won't.
//It's no longer something you can "opt out" of without risking a fine //
Not totally true, there are a list of reasons you dont need to wear one, plus the shopkeeper does not need to wear one. This makes it impossible to police.
//It's a mild inconvenience -- I can't say I've enjoyed the times I've worn mine -- but no more than that.//
To you maybe but if you have problems breathing like I do then wearing a mask that will work is a problem. I do wear maks for some of the work if on a building site - like mixing plaster but I always use one of those big things with two filters and outlet valves. Having the outlet valve means the air flows out and I dont re inhale old air. I can use one for about 10 mins. For a masks/covering to work the valve is useless as it would just spew the virus out of it with no barrier.
So I dont go out to the shops anymore whereas I was before. I just dont want the hassle of explaining the problems I have to the Mask Stasis and why should I tell the World my medical problems. I also dont see why I should wear a badge or similar as that is reminiscent of how the Nazis distinguished people.
Not totally true, there are a list of reasons you dont need to wear one, plus the shopkeeper does not need to wear one. This makes it impossible to police.
//It's a mild inconvenience -- I can't say I've enjoyed the times I've worn mine -- but no more than that.//
To you maybe but if you have problems breathing like I do then wearing a mask that will work is a problem. I do wear maks for some of the work if on a building site - like mixing plaster but I always use one of those big things with two filters and outlet valves. Having the outlet valve means the air flows out and I dont re inhale old air. I can use one for about 10 mins. For a masks/covering to work the valve is useless as it would just spew the virus out of it with no barrier.
So I dont go out to the shops anymore whereas I was before. I just dont want the hassle of explaining the problems I have to the Mask Stasis and why should I tell the World my medical problems. I also dont see why I should wear a badge or similar as that is reminiscent of how the Nazis distinguished people.
Various points across the spectrum of things that could be imposed.
One obvious one being a government telling citizens what it must wear in public. Nothing reasonable about even considering ordering that. And it isn't 'for the good of the majority 'anyway. Quite the reverse. The R figure reduced when this demand wasn't in force so it's clearly not necessary afterwards, Covid isn't likely to disappear after a time, common colds and flu hasn't so acting as if it's either, 'masks for evermore', or, 'until Xmas', isn't reasonable; all it does is spread and enforce the inappropriate paranoia. We aimed to flatten the peak of infections, we achieved that. We didn't aim to have no further surges nor to avoid folk getting ill anytime thereafter. We need realism and a return to normality not an excuse to chip away at freedoms and creation of precedents for future governments to push further. Utterly disgusted at this turn of events. Respect for Boris dropped dramatically after that. He may have supported democracy fir the people in the past while other lesser folk treated it with disdain, but now he pushes for government control of the people.
One obvious one being a government telling citizens what it must wear in public. Nothing reasonable about even considering ordering that. And it isn't 'for the good of the majority 'anyway. Quite the reverse. The R figure reduced when this demand wasn't in force so it's clearly not necessary afterwards, Covid isn't likely to disappear after a time, common colds and flu hasn't so acting as if it's either, 'masks for evermore', or, 'until Xmas', isn't reasonable; all it does is spread and enforce the inappropriate paranoia. We aimed to flatten the peak of infections, we achieved that. We didn't aim to have no further surges nor to avoid folk getting ill anytime thereafter. We need realism and a return to normality not an excuse to chip away at freedoms and creation of precedents for future governments to push further. Utterly disgusted at this turn of events. Respect for Boris dropped dramatically after that. He may have supported democracy fir the people in the past while other lesser folk treated it with disdain, but now he pushes for government control of the people.
