10Pm Closing. What Is The Evidence ?

[Sunk]

// Boris Johnson has been challenged to publish the scientific evidence behind the 10pm closing time for English pubs ahead of a vote by MPs next week. Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer said the public "deserved to know" the basis for the restriction and if it could not be justified the rule must be reviewed. //

It is unlikely the Government will supply any compelling evidence in support of the measure (probably because none exists).

It is also unlikely that the Conservative new recruits will rebel and the vote will go with the Government.

But it is an unpopular diktat. Are they taking the mandate of the electors for granted, and risk becoming unpopular ?

[bobbinwales]

The thinking was that less time for drinking means less peopel get drunk and less time is spent of guard not social distancing. If peopel just winge and drink asmuch in less time and still dont socialy distance then theres no point in cutting hours a bit more part from shutting pub's fully. Thats the next step. A saw a large group of men sitting huggled round a table drinking today and refusing to split up and abuseing the pub manger. Nicole sturgen has it right. We tryed opening pubs and some abused it so its time to shut them. Shame but thats how it is. We after shut them.

[Sunk]

OK that’s one theory.
Here’s another one. The pubs close an hour earlier, so people come out an hour earlier, and drink exactly the same.
But now everyone is ejected from the premises at the same time, leading to more contact not less.

[Cloverjo]

Do people go out an hour earlier, though, to fit their required alcohol level in?
I don’t know. I don’t go to a pub to get drunk. I go out for a meal or a drink while I’m visiting a place for another reason or to meet friends.

Having said that, I think the 10pm was plucked out of nowhere. At least it stops a little bit of contact.

[puzzled54]

Nicola Sturgeon does not seem to get the same level of criticism that boris gets

[allenlondon]

When I was a drinker (later an alcoholic) my aim was oblivion, not social drinking. Similarly, my pal Tommy would put away several pints plus barley wines in the 15 minutes before last orders.

[Sunk]

puzzled54 //Nicola Sturgeon does not seem to get the same level of criticism that boris gets //

I can rectify that. She is just as bad.

// However, the First Minister warned that further restrictions, including possible closure, "will be unavoidable, locally or nationally, if the rules within pubs and restaurants, on hygiene, face coverings, table service, maximum numbers in groups and the distance between them, are not fully complied with". //

Sturgeon is closing the pubs even though they have been complying to the letter with the requirements. New cases are increasing, but pubs are being blamed for the increase in transmissions even though there is no evidence.

[youngmafbog]

Johnson has gone power mad. Hitler, Goebels and the rest of them would be proud.

He needs removing NOW. There is no evidence to support what he is doing it is simply to push more towards a vaccine that GSK-Vallance will make a fortune of the back of and probably Boris gets a back hander.

And as for the wee one ....

[ummmm]

A lot of people can't go out earlier. Some of us have jobs!

[youngmafbog]

Dont tell the Turk Johnson or he will close your company down like he is putting millions on the rock and roll already.

[ummmm]

Jeez - you'd think the way some of you talk that Boris runs the country single handed.

[youngmafbog]

At the minute he pretty much is. Haven't you noticed Parliament is not getting a say?

[jourdain2]

Certainly Boris has lost a lot of support and he should be taking it very seriously. I think that his 'conference' speech shows that he is doing just that - but he's hitting the wrong button with the 'brighter tomorrow' theme when most people know that wind power cannot possibly be the only major source of power. That's for another debate. Last survey, however, of Tory party members showed his rating as -10.3 and 24th out of 25 ranking of cabinet Ministers (Hancock was 25th).

Methinks there is a lot of ground to regain - hope he sees that.

[ummmm]

It's because people are peed of, Jourdain. We want to come and go as we please so blame Boris.

[ummmm]

*off

[Ellipsis]

Did you see 999 What's Your Emergency last night? Filmed pre-covid. You can watch it here:

https://www.channel4.com/programmes/999-whats-your-emergency

It shows the kind of behaviour that is now being curbed. Quite an eye-opener, if you're not familiar with town centre pubs in 2019/20.

On the program, it suggested that pubs and clubs (and the behaviour they spawn) were a necessary evil to support town centre economies. I think now that we've had a few months without that support, we've maybe had a taste of an alternative (a bit like with the lower traffic on the roads). It will be interesting to see how it all pans out.

[New Judge]

//New cases are increasing, but pubs are being blamed for the increase in transmissions even though there is no evidence.//

In fact there is evidence to show that hospitality venues (food outlets/restaurants) account for a very small (less than 5%) number of transmissions:

https://www.morningadvertiser.co.uk/Article/2020/09/29/How-many-coronavirus-cases-are-from-the-hospitality-industry

Incidentally, I don't know how they know where infections are transmitted since it seems they cannot accurately record how many people have the virus in total, but anyway. I digress.

It seems very odd that places where transmission is relatively low seem the first to be targeted (either wholly or partially)when transmission rise.

[bobbinwales]

Forget 10 clock, and all the wingy whiners, just shut them. A think some just dont get it, how serius things are with corona in many places now. Hospital's are starting to be overran again and infections are rockiting like in parts of Wales and North England and Glasgow exetra. We want to keep schools open and as many work place's as possible but we need to keep contacts down. When peopel drink in groups the lose there consentration and start touching each other or talking loudly at someone 12 inch's away and spraying in there faces. When it was nicer wether we could sit outside but not now. So it makes sense to shut pubs IMO rather than shut factory's and office's or schools. Off course pubs will suffer but hopefuly a few week's shut will help keep infection's down and let us focuss on more important things. Pubs were shut for months and its time to shut them again for a few week's.
Bobb

[ummmm]

Yes, Ellipsis, filmed in the county I live. It's not as bad as they made it look.

[ummmm]

And Bobb....what about the publicans income, their family, their home?

[jourdain2]

Us too Ummmm. After the first couple of weeks when, like most, we accepted that a short breathing-space was needed, one octogenerarian and septugenarian have been in full rebellion mode over here. Months now we have pleaded for people to go back to normal and let us look after ourselves - maybe a bit of a rule about giving older people some space? I have lost sight in a lower quadrant of my left eye due to cancelled appointments so the whole thing being undiagnosed although suspected. I've just received yet another put-off.
We want to live our lives, please let us look after ourselves - we've been alive a long time and we're quite good at it!