Crosswords2 mins ago
Sutcliffe Is Dead
He has finally got his wish
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retrocop - // Killing thirteen and attempting to kill seven more is hardly the work of a member of the civilised society you constantly talk about. //
I didn't suggest that it is.
If you re-read my post, you will hopefully understand that it is about making and maintaining a civilsed society that means that state spnsered murder is wrong.
Of course crmiminals like Sutcliffe need to be taken out of the circulation of a civilsed society - but murdering them simply takes the civilisatin out of the society I, and I hope most ohters, would wish to live in.
// It’s a jungle out there and if we crave utopia we have to eliminate the square pegs who don’t fit in order for civilised society to go about their business without fear of Sutcliffes and his ilk. //
Referring to living human beings as 'square pegs' rather underlines your apparent position - that criminals, even muderers, somehow cease to be 'human' and therefore can be put down like animals.
That in my view is a seriously dangerous position for society to put itself in - where do we draw the line? Who else bcomes a 'square peg'?
I didn't suggest that it is.
If you re-read my post, you will hopefully understand that it is about making and maintaining a civilsed society that means that state spnsered murder is wrong.
Of course crmiminals like Sutcliffe need to be taken out of the circulation of a civilsed society - but murdering them simply takes the civilisatin out of the society I, and I hope most ohters, would wish to live in.
// It’s a jungle out there and if we crave utopia we have to eliminate the square pegs who don’t fit in order for civilised society to go about their business without fear of Sutcliffes and his ilk. //
Referring to living human beings as 'square pegs' rather underlines your apparent position - that criminals, even muderers, somehow cease to be 'human' and therefore can be put down like animals.
That in my view is a seriously dangerous position for society to put itself in - where do we draw the line? Who else bcomes a 'square peg'?
Trevor - // "If the cost of living in a civilsed society that incarcerates its murderers is a few pence of my income tax, then I am happy to pay it."
Weren't you the one recently who professed pride in finding tax loopholes in order to pay less tax? //
I don't believe I 'expressed pride' as you somewhat colourfully phrase it.
As far as I can see, using legal means to avoid paying tax is perfectly legitimate, as I have pointed out, and it has no connection with my willingness to pay tax per se, which of course I do, quite happily.
Weren't you the one recently who professed pride in finding tax loopholes in order to pay less tax? //
I don't believe I 'expressed pride' as you somewhat colourfully phrase it.
As far as I can see, using legal means to avoid paying tax is perfectly legitimate, as I have pointed out, and it has no connection with my willingness to pay tax per se, which of course I do, quite happily.
//state spnsered murder is wrong.//
Tbf, if it is legal, it isn't murder... and we do have circumstances where it is acceptable to kill somebody else. Self-defence, maybe even "mercy killings" with their consent, could be forgivable.
In this case, I am not convinced he was actually sane... and although that makes no difference to victims or families, it does bother me a little, that we only judge outcome, rather than intentions.
It is more expensive to execute someone than keep them in prison for life. And possibly- more humane.
Tbf, if it is legal, it isn't murder... and we do have circumstances where it is acceptable to kill somebody else. Self-defence, maybe even "mercy killings" with their consent, could be forgivable.
In this case, I am not convinced he was actually sane... and although that makes no difference to victims or families, it does bother me a little, that we only judge outcome, rather than intentions.
It is more expensive to execute someone than keep them in prison for life. And possibly- more humane.
Longer, slower and more agonising would please me more than a quick death for him, Andy. I want him to have suffered.
Our friends saw their daughter go off to university with the same hopes for her as we had for our son, who had been a boyfriend of their daughter.
Our son graduated. Their daughter was hammered and stabbed to death by Sutcliffe with her body left in a dreadful state after a night out with her Uni friends as they began their third year.
I saw what it did to her parents. Dad's once cheery smile and wave to me as he walked to work became a nod as he aged before his time. The suffering of that family will never end.
Our friends saw their daughter go off to university with the same hopes for her as we had for our son, who had been a boyfriend of their daughter.
Our son graduated. Their daughter was hammered and stabbed to death by Sutcliffe with her body left in a dreadful state after a night out with her Uni friends as they began their third year.
I saw what it did to her parents. Dad's once cheery smile and wave to me as he walked to work became a nod as he aged before his time. The suffering of that family will never end.
danny //You have no idea what was happening in the investigation and might I suggest that you keep your disaparaging remarks to yourself.//
Which stretch of sand did you have your head buried in during his trial & subsequent investigation? He was interviewed by police nine times, his car was spotted 60 times in red light districts where the Ripper prowled for victims.
Which stretch of sand did you have your head buried in during his trial & subsequent investigation? He was interviewed by police nine times, his car was spotted 60 times in red light districts where the Ripper prowled for victims.
pixie - // Tbf, if it is legal, it isn't murder... and we do have circumstances where it is acceptable to kill somebody else. Self-defence, maybe even "mercy killings" with their consent, could be forgivable. //
The circumstances you suggest are a universe away from a system where society decides to take the life of someone, as a 'punishment' for taking the life of someone else.
Leaving aside just how bizarre that notion is - statistics have long proven that capital punishment is no deterrent, how can it be?
Murder is an irrational act, so the idea that any potential murderer weighs up the consequences and avoids the act is simply farcical.
// In this case, I am not convinced he was actually sane... and although that makes no difference to victims or families, it does bother me a little, that we only judge outcome, rather than intentions. //
Which rather underlines my point - how do we judge beyond a reasonable doubt that someone is 'sane' enough to be executed? Just typing that sentence underlines the sheer inconceivability that this could be seen as any way for a society to conduct its punishment system.
// It is more expensive to execute someone than keep them in prison for life. And possibly- more humane. //
I can't see what is 'humane' about taking anyone's life - and I have already confirmed my view that the financial cost of keeping someone locked up for their lifetime is the cost we as a society undertake to pay.
We do so, because the alternative is to murder someone without the reason of blind rage, or cold calculation for gain, but simply because it suits us to avoid the responsibility of taking someone's life, which to my way of thinking, is even worse.
The circumstances you suggest are a universe away from a system where society decides to take the life of someone, as a 'punishment' for taking the life of someone else.
Leaving aside just how bizarre that notion is - statistics have long proven that capital punishment is no deterrent, how can it be?
Murder is an irrational act, so the idea that any potential murderer weighs up the consequences and avoids the act is simply farcical.
// In this case, I am not convinced he was actually sane... and although that makes no difference to victims or families, it does bother me a little, that we only judge outcome, rather than intentions. //
Which rather underlines my point - how do we judge beyond a reasonable doubt that someone is 'sane' enough to be executed? Just typing that sentence underlines the sheer inconceivability that this could be seen as any way for a society to conduct its punishment system.
// It is more expensive to execute someone than keep them in prison for life. And possibly- more humane. //
I can't see what is 'humane' about taking anyone's life - and I have already confirmed my view that the financial cost of keeping someone locked up for their lifetime is the cost we as a society undertake to pay.
We do so, because the alternative is to murder someone without the reason of blind rage, or cold calculation for gain, but simply because it suits us to avoid the responsibility of taking someone's life, which to my way of thinking, is even worse.
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