ChatterBank6 mins ago
Do They Want A Deal Or Not?
62 Answers
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"The biggest obstacle is the EUSSR's demand the UK match future rules to ensure fair competition." - surely even these deluded dictators must realise that no nation could accept such undefined interference in perpetuity.
"The biggest obstacle is the EUSSR's demand the UK match future rules to ensure fair competition." - surely even these deluded dictators must realise that no nation could accept such undefined interference in perpetuity.
Answers
When this nonsense started way back, I said that the EU was going to play very very hard ball from day one, in an effort to discourage any other member states from getting bright ideas about leaving as well. I also suggested that they fully expected the UK to play even harder, and a rough tough fight to the line to follow. What actually happened was Teresa May,...
12:21 Fri 11th Dec 2020
TTT - // sunk: "The EUSSR have a better hand so they decide what they want to give up. If no deal is done they are the bigger economy so will weather it better. " - typical VBQC comment, not true, we import far more from them than we export. //
Negotiating, or failing to negotiate with a bigger ecconomy is never going to be a reason why the UK will let itself, and its ecconomic future, be held to ransom.
Clearly the government feels it can weather the storm and find additinal markets outwith the tethering of EU restrictions, and is willing to put that theory to the test.
I doubt they would do that without being seriously sure of their ground in advance.
Negotiating, or failing to negotiate with a bigger ecconomy is never going to be a reason why the UK will let itself, and its ecconomic future, be held to ransom.
Clearly the government feels it can weather the storm and find additinal markets outwith the tethering of EU restrictions, and is willing to put that theory to the test.
I doubt they would do that without being seriously sure of their ground in advance.
The EU may want a deal - indeed I suspect most of the Heads of State wish for one and are willing to negotiate (in the true sense of the word).
Unfortunately, Monsieur Barnier does not want a deal - and is moving heaven and earth to achieve his goal. It was very noticeable that when he was quarantined for a week we got very close to an agreement - but as soon as he marched back in the progress was rolled back and hostilities resumed.
I don't know why the EU has tolerated his channeling of the Spirit of De Gaulle for so long - they should have dumped him a good while ago - but it seems that this bigoted, arrogant, unelected pipsqueak has single-handedly condemned the EU (and the UK) to a future that virtually no-one thinks is the best way forward.
Who is pulling his strings - who gains from a weaker EU and an impoverished UK? Or is he just an archetypal French Merde Stirrer, who will rejoice in ruining the UK even at huge cost to the EU?
[ none of the above exempts the hopeless May and the equally incompetent Johnson from my contempt - but I suspect that M Barnier would have been just as intransigent whoever had been the UK negotiator ]
Unfortunately, Monsieur Barnier does not want a deal - and is moving heaven and earth to achieve his goal. It was very noticeable that when he was quarantined for a week we got very close to an agreement - but as soon as he marched back in the progress was rolled back and hostilities resumed.
I don't know why the EU has tolerated his channeling of the Spirit of De Gaulle for so long - they should have dumped him a good while ago - but it seems that this bigoted, arrogant, unelected pipsqueak has single-handedly condemned the EU (and the UK) to a future that virtually no-one thinks is the best way forward.
Who is pulling his strings - who gains from a weaker EU and an impoverished UK? Or is he just an archetypal French Merde Stirrer, who will rejoice in ruining the UK even at huge cost to the EU?
[ none of the above exempts the hopeless May and the equally incompetent Johnson from my contempt - but I suspect that M Barnier would have been just as intransigent whoever had been the UK negotiator ]
“ Why can't the UK and EU agree deals in particular areas, of the kind that the EU has with the US, Australia etc.? ”
Not sure if I detect irony there. The EU has trade deals with neither the US not Australia. Despite on off negotiations that in the case of the US have been going on for years.
We were told by enthusiastic Brexit politicians that negotiations a trade deal with the EU would be easy. Part of the much maligned “project fear” pointed out that it would be anything but as the EU has a poor record of negotiating free trade agreements
Not sure if I detect irony there. The EU has trade deals with neither the US not Australia. Despite on off negotiations that in the case of the US have been going on for years.
We were told by enthusiastic Brexit politicians that negotiations a trade deal with the EU would be easy. Part of the much maligned “project fear” pointed out that it would be anything but as the EU has a poor record of negotiating free trade agreements
//The idea of level playing fields is common to most trade deals, it's not some EU move designed to punish Britain.//
Perhaps you could point me to one where the EU has a veto over what industries their trading partner's government may or may not support. Or one where the EU insists on their trading partner maintaining alignment with the EU on matters unrelated to trade.
Perhaps you could point me to one where the EU has a veto over what industries their trading partner's government may or may not support. Or one where the EU insists on their trading partner maintaining alignment with the EU on matters unrelated to trade.
//Part of the much maligned “project fear” pointed out that it would be anything but as the EU has a poor record of negotiating free trade agreements//
It was one issue which I believe "Project Fear" and Remainers in general got absolutely right. There was never any possibility of a free trade agreement between us which did not involve a large element of political control. I voted to leave in full knowledge of that. The EU is not a pragmatic organisation. It is a political construction and nothing will deflect it away from its aims and objectives.
It was one issue which I believe "Project Fear" and Remainers in general got absolutely right. There was never any possibility of a free trade agreement between us which did not involve a large element of political control. I voted to leave in full knowledge of that. The EU is not a pragmatic organisation. It is a political construction and nothing will deflect it away from its aims and objectives.
sunny-dave - // The EU may want a deal - indeed I suspect most of the Heads of State wish for one and are willing to negotiate (in the true sense of the word).
Unfortunately, Monsieur Barnier does not want a deal - and is moving heaven and earth to achieve his goal. It was very noticeable that when he was quarantined for a week we got very close to an agreement - but as soon as he marched back in the progress was rolled back and hostilities resumed.
I don't know why the EU has tolerated his channeling of the Spirit of De Gaulle for so long - they should have dumped him a good while ago - but it seems that this bigoted, arrogant, unelected pipsqueak has single-handedly condemned the EU (and the UK) to a future that virtually no-one thinks is the best way forward.
Who is pulling his strings - who gains from a weaker EU and an impoverished UK? Or is he just an archetypal French Merde Stirrer, who will rejoice in ruining the UK even at huge cost to the EU?
[ none of the above exempts the hopeless May and the equally incompetent Johnson from my contempt - but I suspect that M Barnier would have been just as intransigent whoever had been the UK negotiator ] //
An excellent post.
It's clear that the personalities involved in the negotiations have been a major stumbling block - Barnier being front and centre in the problem creation.
Unfortunately, Monsieur Barnier does not want a deal - and is moving heaven and earth to achieve his goal. It was very noticeable that when he was quarantined for a week we got very close to an agreement - but as soon as he marched back in the progress was rolled back and hostilities resumed.
I don't know why the EU has tolerated his channeling of the Spirit of De Gaulle for so long - they should have dumped him a good while ago - but it seems that this bigoted, arrogant, unelected pipsqueak has single-handedly condemned the EU (and the UK) to a future that virtually no-one thinks is the best way forward.
Who is pulling his strings - who gains from a weaker EU and an impoverished UK? Or is he just an archetypal French Merde Stirrer, who will rejoice in ruining the UK even at huge cost to the EU?
[ none of the above exempts the hopeless May and the equally incompetent Johnson from my contempt - but I suspect that M Barnier would have been just as intransigent whoever had been the UK negotiator ] //
An excellent post.
It's clear that the personalities involved in the negotiations have been a major stumbling block - Barnier being front and centre in the problem creation.
Seems Macron has a hand in the last minute 'ambush'. Macron has continual riots in his country (rarely reported) and is up for election so he has decided he will fight it on fish, hence the spanner in the works there.
What he seems to spectacularly forget is that with no deal he will have 0% of fish, from January. To me that is not a good thing for either side but in particular the French fishermen. I suspect the current riots in France may look like a walk in the park when no deal hits the fan.
What he seems to spectacularly forget is that with no deal he will have 0% of fish, from January. To me that is not a good thing for either side but in particular the French fishermen. I suspect the current riots in France may look like a walk in the park when no deal hits the fan.
No for much of the seemingly endless war over how we left the EU, most of not all on the “hard Brexit” side said: “we should just leave” and “have” a free trade deal “like Canada”. The PM assured us of an “oven ready” deal indeed which evidently implied plain sailing from the territorial waters if the withdrawal agreement to the bold open seas of free trade harmony. Now he is talking rather ridiculously about “Australia”.
While typing this I was interrupted by a “New Deal Alert” rather amusingly.
From Dominos Pizzas ...
While typing this I was interrupted by a “New Deal Alert” rather amusingly.
From Dominos Pizzas ...
There was an "oven ready" deal - As per Canada. However the EU do not want to give us a deal like that, they want control over us so we are in the position we are in today.
Personally I am not a fan of deals with the EU. I think we need time apart and then maybe see if there is any common ground we can form trade deals. But that's it a basic trade deal nothing else.
Personally I am not a fan of deals with the EU. I think we need time apart and then maybe see if there is any common ground we can form trade deals. But that's it a basic trade deal nothing else.
Ichy:
"The European Union and the United States have the largest bilateral trade and investment relationship and enjoy the most integrated economic relationship in the world."
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//Who is pulling his strings//
Look no further than who was pulling Bliar's strings, Major's strings. May's and Cameron's strings. Who financed the legal "challenges" to Brexit and Gina Millar, Bliar sold 750 British State buildings, in 2000, to an individual who immediately sold them at vast profit after a meeting at the New York Plaza Hotel in 1996? How did the Carlyle Group, who's Chairman was Major, manage to buy 31% of the publicly owned defence firm QinetiQ for £42million and make £300million 3 years later. The main "client" of the Carlyle Group was the very same individual who met Bliar and all the aforementioned politicians. It wouldn't surprise me if Johnson was also bought and sold ... he is always moaning about being skint and has a lot to pay for. Just a guess.
Look no further than who was pulling Bliar's strings, Major's strings. May's and Cameron's strings. Who financed the legal "challenges" to Brexit and Gina Millar, Bliar sold 750 British State buildings, in 2000, to an individual who immediately sold them at vast profit after a meeting at the New York Plaza Hotel in 1996? How did the Carlyle Group, who's Chairman was Major, manage to buy 31% of the publicly owned defence firm QinetiQ for £42million and make £300million 3 years later. The main "client" of the Carlyle Group was the very same individual who met Bliar and all the aforementioned politicians. It wouldn't surprise me if Johnson was also bought and sold ... he is always moaning about being skint and has a lot to pay for. Just a guess.
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