Gordon Brown, "Uk Could Become A Failed State" ......

[ToraToraTora]

https://news.sky.com/story/pm-must-reform-the-union-or-risk-uk-becoming-a-failed-state-12198125
Well if it does it'll be primarily your beloved Noo Labour's fault me old china, for enacting the devolution catastrophe. Is it time to reverse that and bring the Union back together? TBH I think England will thrive without the millstones of Wales, Scotland and NI anyway so it's them that need to get their April in gear.

[Khandro]

The current system is broken. You can see that in the fact that Scotland under devolution has become a hyper-centralised nation with power concentrated in Edinburgh, yet with Westminster taking the blame for all its ills.

[ToraToraTora]

ich: "You spout tosh about the “antiBritish” and in the same breath champion the breakup of the UK. " - where have championed the break up of the UK? Where have I uttered and anti UK syllable? I'm trying to preserve the UK from the inevitable effects of Noo Labour's devolution catastrophe.

[Ellipsis]

New Labour made a pig's ear of devolution, but the idea of a new government is to undo the mistakes of the previous one, not make them even worse like the Conservative and Unionist Party (God the irony in that name) has been doing for the last decade.

[Untitled]

I am not in favour of scotland leaving tora - I think it would be a disaster for them and it would mean the end of the country I was born in and that I love - the United Kingdom. But you cannot discourage them by being haughty and high-handed and demeaning. The rise of the SNP is a threat to the union and the ball is in our court... the english need to either take its defence seriously or it WILL fall apart. That would be a tragedy for all of us, imo.

[ToraToraTora]

untitled: "But I sense that the english have shamefully given up on preserving the union so perhaps the breakup of our country is inevitable. How depressing. " - how? we ain't the ones going on about "independence", we ain't leaving, we continue to pay for the show, what more can we do?

[ToraToraTora]

untitled: "The rise of the SNP is a threat to the union and the ball is in our court... the english need to either take its defence seriously or it WILL fall apart. That would be a tragedy for all of us, imo. " - ok your turn, what should we do?

[Untitled]

we can listen to scotland's problems with the union as it is and try to do something about it - as Gordon Brown suggests.

[ToraToraTora]

ellipsis: "New Labour made a pig's ear of devolution" - no, devolution is a bad idea not matter how it's implemented it always leads to rancour and division.

[Untitled]

I think the reform of parliament's second chamber to represent the regions is a very good suggestion... nobody has been quite sure waht to "do" with the house of lords for a long time and having a proper second chamber with a real mandate and power would not just be better for our system in holding the government to account but could also revitalise the union.

[ToraToraTora]

"we can listen to scotland's problems with the union as it is and try to do something about it - as Gordon Brown suggests. " - what problems? They run their own show for the most part, so any issues must be mainly their own.

[drmorgans]

With the demise of Labour in Scotland though, the main centre-left part is pro-leaving the Union. So if the SNP do well in the May elections they will claim a mandate for a second referendum.

[gulliver1]

TTT , You are just talking a LOB , as usual

[Ellipsis]

> no, devolution is a bad idea not matter how it's implemented it always leads to rancour and division.

Replace devolution with centralised power in that sentence and it still makes sense!

Perhaps federalism is the answer ...

[ToraToraTora]

ellipsis, we should return to how it was before Noo Labour mucked it up.

[Untitled]

"what problems? They run their own show for the most part, so any issues must be mainly their own."

I rest my case. English indifference and derision to why scots want to leave will not solve the problem... listening - and doing something - might.

[Jackdaw33]

At the time of devolution Scotland was dominated by Labour and the SNP were little more than a fringe party. Blair could not possibly have foreseen how quickly the tables would turn; if he had he might have thought twice.

[Untitled]

Indeed jack.. losing scotland is a big part of why Labour has been stuck in the wilderness so long.

I sometimes wonder if this is why some tories - members of the conservative and UNIONIST party - are so indifferent to the collapse of the union. Perhaps they suspect it will mean an England that is a blue one-party state :/. It would not be the first time the conservatives have put party before country.

[ToraToraTora]

untitled: 10:05, ok I'm all ears, explain it to me.

[ToraToraTora]

untitled: 10:09, come on, all parties do what they can to optimise their chance at power. That's why the Lib non dems are always harping on about PR, that's why both parties move the boundaries all the time. Yes I agree Labour cannot win an election without getting back its Scottish presence and yes that inevitably is good for us but I do not want the union to break up.

[Untitled]

I am not pro-Scottish independence ToraToraTora. In fact I wish to avoid it. If you want to know why they do, you should ask someone who does believe in it - I am sure there are some on this site - and try to avoid taking a dismissive attitude.