Gordon Brown, "Uk Could Become A Failed State" ......

[ToraToraTora]

https://news.sky.com/story/pm-must-reform-the-union-or-risk-uk-becoming-a-failed-state-12198125
Well if it does it'll be primarily your beloved Noo Labour's fault me old china, for enacting the devolution catastrophe. Is it time to reverse that and bring the Union back together? TBH I think England will thrive without the millstones of Wales, Scotland and NI anyway so it's them that need to get their April in gear.

[ToraToraTora]

TCL, took you a while to hunt down the contrarian pills there me old china!

[Untitled]

The UK cannot be the UK of Great Britain if the top bit of Great Britain is not part of the Union can it!

Gawd elp us this is hard work!

[ToraToraTora]

untitled, 11:05, Is that your own view or do you have expert backing you can point me at?

[ToraToraTora]

The UK is not over if 92% of it remains.
Gawd elp us this is hard work!

[Untitled]

No Tora I am just referring to basic facts

Do you understand that the history of the United Kingdom as a state begins with the 1707 Union? Which countries were party to that Union? What do you think happens to the United Kingdom if the Act of Union is repealed?

[ToraToraTora]

TCL so the deficit is 700% for one year, I assume you accept those figures from your beloved Guardian, yes? so it is quite likely that is the same on average every year so it follows that their national debt can be extrapolated from that. Geddit?

[ToraToraTora]

untitled: "No Tora I am just referring to basic facts" - you mean it's your opinion, logic dictates that if 92% of something remains it is still what it was, if a spider loses a leg it's still a spider, that is simple logic.

"Do you understand that the history of the United Kingdom as a state begins with the 1707 Union? Which countries were party to that Union? What do you think happens to the United Kingdom if the Act of Union is repealed? " - I do understand and one state leaving leaves the others.
Tell you what, find me what the experts say, I googled but I can't find anything that says the UK is ended if Scotland leave.

[THECORBYLOON]

As it's Scotland's Deficit, surely Scotland will be responsible for it?

[Ellipsis]

> ellipsis: "What will its full title be if Scotland leaves? " - err the same, Great Britain and Northern Ireland will still exist.

> untitled, 11:05, Is that your own view or do you have expert backing you can point me at?

You could read a history book or two? Or even the Wikipedia entry for the United Kingdom:

-----------------------------------
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom
The union between the Kingdom of England (which included Wales) and the Kingdom of Scotland in 1707 to form the Kingdom of Great Britain, followed by the union in 1801 of Great Britain with the Kingdom of Ireland created the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland. Five-sixths of Ireland seceded from the UK in 1922, leaving the present formulation of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. The UK's name was adopted in 1927 to reflect the change.
-----------------------------------

In other words the "Great Britain" in the UK's full name is the Kingdom of Great Britain, not the island of Great Britain. The Kingdom of Great Britain will no longer exist. So, what will the UK be called?

[ToraToraTora]

ah - interesing article from the Scottish Herald here:
https://www.heraldscotland.com/opinion/13090922.scotland-could-not-withdraw-from-the-1707-act-of-union/
...and I quote: "The 1707 Act is the ultimate authorising legislation – it is the authority for the Westminster Parliament. So if you repeal the Act, you stand to risk losing 300 years of laws, treaties, statutory regulations, and so on, creating legal chaos.

It would take many years to wade through these so the only practical legal mechanism to effect independence would be to retain the Act of Union and amend it to enable a treaty to be negotiated. This was exactly the issue faced by the Irish negotiators in
1921. Thus, the 1801 Act of Union was retained"

[allenlondon]

Gordon Brown. One of his claims was that we’d found a solution to ‘boom and bust’. We hadn’t. Just another self-deluded politician, then and now.

[THECORBYLOON]

If not the Former United Kingdom, what about the Different United Kingdom?

[Untitled]

Tora you have made it painfully clear that you do not understand - or care to understand - what the union is, and why it is central to the united kingdom. The Act of Union - between England and Scotland - is what makes the United Kingdom, the United Kingdom. If Scotland leaves it, the Act of Union must be repealed... if you wish to actually learn some history i strongly recommend this radio 4 series by the historian Linda Colley (her books are good too):

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03pn0vv

[ToraToraTora]

TCL 11:21, logically, yes but they'll argue otherwise no doubt.

[Jackdaw33]

Britain derives from Britannia, the Roman name for England, not Scotland, which was Caledonia. The French use Great Britain to distinguish it from Little Britain (Brittany) which was colonised by Britons fleeing the Saxon invasions. This is because the French name in both cases is the same - Bretagne.

[davebro]

We can call ourselves whatever we like. Many countries have changed their names over the years. The UK without Scotland - let's call it "Utopia"!

[ToraToraTora]

untitled: "Tora you have made it painfully clear that you do not understand - or care to understand " You have not made it clear you have tried to bulldoze me with your view, many have tried that, it doesn't work without logical reasoning and knowledge. I have a very thorough understanding, I just do not agree with your view and neither it seems does Bill Brown of the Scottish Herald, did you read that link?

[ToraToraTora]

untitled: "If Scotland leaves it, the Act of Union must be repealed.." - Bill Brown explains very well why it will not be in his excellent article in the Scottish Herald:
https://www.heraldscotland.com/opinion/13090922.scotland-could-not-withdraw-from-the-1707-act-of-union/
once a gain I paste the link in the hope you can read it and digest its contents.

[THECORBYLOON]

"Bill Brown of the Scottish Herald" is/was Bill Brown employed by the Herald or is/was he just a member of the public expressing an opinion?

[ToraToraTora]

TCL it is a proper article not a letter.