'Converts' To Christianity

[Khandro]

Do we need them?

[Untitled]

yes there are passages in the koran that advocate violence.

[naomi24]

Cross posted. Thank you. And do you condemn that teaching?

[Untitled]

Of course!!

[naomi24]

At last!

[HeavensToBetsy]

Do you have any examples of passages in the Quran that advocate violence, Naomi? I know a few, but they advocate violence only as retaliation, for example 2:190-193. As Karen Armstrong writes in Islam: A Short History, the Quran "does not sanctify warfare. It develops the notion of a just war of self-defence to protect decent values, but condemns killing and aggression". (Phoenix press, 2001, p26).

[naomi24]

Heavens, as an admirer of Karen Armstrong’s work I would advocate remembering that she is a religionist and, as such, writes through rose coloured glasses. Her research is superb though.

[pixie374]

Atheist's point was proven anyway. Islam has "terrorists". Ireland has "troubles".

[naomi24]

Atheist is mistaken. Ireland has terrorists.

[ichkeria]

"Also, we're told his asylum application was turned down seven years ago. So where had he been living since then; how had he been supporting himself? "

That is incorrect, or at least only partly true, His latest appeal only failed earlier this year. He apparently started bomb-making in April

[pixie374]

Not what he said. Or I said.

[ToraToraTora]

"Do you have any examples of passages in the Quran that advocate violence, Naomi?" - well there are many but lets start with this one: "(9:5) And when the forbidden months have passed, kill the idolaters wherever you find them and take them prisoners, and beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they repent and observe Prayer and pay the Zakat, then leave their way free. Surely, Allah is Most Forgiving, Merciful."

[naomi24]

Thanks TTT. I can’t provide links at the moment. I’m on my phone.

[pixie374]

While the Bible is full of love and joy....

[Khandro]

HTB: There endless texts explaining away the violent passages in the Koran on the net, but that doesn't seem to prevent the attacks, so would it not be more sensible for these apologists to address, instead of us (they are always in English), people such as the one who recently attempted to slaughter mothers & babies in a maternity hospital?

[pixie374]

Who are "apologists" khandro? Trying to lay the blame on a book.... rather than the perpetrators, is dangerous and weird.

[Khandro]

pixie ; //While the Bible is full of love and joy....//

A predictable & specious response.

Yes there are violent passages in the O.T. some from thousands of years ago. The point is that no one acts on them, that is unless you can point me to a Christian suicide bomber

[pixie374]

That was my point, khandro. The question is, why?

[naomi24]

The Bible doesn’t command faithful Jews and Christians to slaughter strangers wholesale.

[pixie374]

Not really an answer, naomi. Two books. We blame one for a minority behaviour, but not the other.
Why? And why does reading the Koran, not affect everyone?

[HeavensToBetsy]

Thanks TTT. Out of context, I'd agree that this is 'advocating violence', but taken in context it is a slightly different story. 9:5 is referring specifically to polytheists who have broken a peace treaty.

Let's face it, we can choose verses from the Quran and the Bible to support pretty much any position we like, but I think it's misleading to suggest that the Quran unequivocally and unconditionally advocates violence towards unbelievers (or indeed anyone else).