Surely Boris Has To Go Now?

[diddlydo]

Who is sticking up for Boris now? None of the papers as far as I can see.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/feb/01/zero-shame-how-the-papers-covered-anger-at-boris-johnson-over-sue-gray-report

[Stickybottle]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10467399/amp/Tories-demand-Boris-withdraws-Jimmy-Savile-slur-Keir-Starmer.html

You STILL do not get it do you naomi ?
Defending the indefensible as ever

[jim360]

Ah, classic whataboutism. But there are at least three things you're missing:

1. Johnson was most definitely personally involved in some of the parties, since he's been photographed at at least one of them; Starmer was not involved in the decision not to prosecute Savile;

2. Johnson's allegation was not that Starmer was merely overseeing the CPS when it failed, but also that he was personally involved (which, as we've established, is not credible, see (1) and your own link); in any case, Starmer has apologised and, once it came to light, launched an inquiry.

3. The debate yesterday was about Johnson's conduct, or about conduct in Downing Street in general. The only reason it was mentioned was as a transparent attempt to distract attention from Johnson personally, and muddy the waters.

Clearly it was a terrible failing to prosecute Savile, and clearly as head of the CPS Starmer has ultimate responsibility. But one final, obvious difference is that Starmer accepted this, whereas Johnson manifestly doesn't.

[dannyk13]

Jim, if Starmer has accepted that he was in fact in charge at the time then what Boris said is true so why should he apologise.

[jim360]

What Johnson said was that Starmer, as DPP, decided not to prosecute Savile:

"[Starmer] spent most of his time... failing to prosecute Jimmy Savile".

This is not true. Starmer wasn't personally involved. So what Johnson said, by linking Starmer personally to what happened, is wrong.

[Stickybottle]

naomi24
How odd that Boris, as boss, must bear full responsibility for people having a glass of wine in the office and yet Starmer, as head of the CPS, bears no responsibility whatsoever for very serious failings within his organisation.
———-
But Starmer DID take responsibility for failings by the police and cps as your previous link showed
Did you actually read your own link ?
He did not wilfully mislead any one nor deny events took place and subsequently have to explain that they did

Anyone like that spring to mind ?

[jim360]

Of course, the reason Johnson said it is precisely for this effect. In a thread discussing whether Johnson should resign (or be forced out, a question that is wholly isolated from anybody else and certainly from the current Leader of the Opposition, we've now spent the last several comments discussing *Starmer's* alleged misconduct. It doesn't matter that the allegation isn't true; all that is important is that it *might* be, so that people are dragged into discussing it.

[Khandro]

The Telegraph has this morning published full list of Tories calling for Boris Johnson to resign - and those still backing the PM

Of the former. 10 (all very vociferous & virtue signalling, sez I)
Of the latter: 33
That leaves a lot who have said nothing openly, but I think it gives some indication of how the land lies.

[naomi24]

Jim, Boris has apologised profusely for 'partygate' and he has accepted full responsibility. I won’t ask why you're saying he hasn't.

Sticky, you’re mistaken. I get it absolutely, The knives are out for Boris. That is the simple bottom line.

[Ellipsis]

> Of course, the reason Johnson said it is precisely for this effect.

Yep, classic "fake news" tactic. But it has backfired, as the Mail link shows.

[Stickybottle]

naomi24
Sticky, you’re mistaken. I get it absolutely, The knives are out for Boris. That is the simple bottom line.
———
You clearly do not
If you ‘got it’ you would not defend his every move nor make excuse after excuse for him

The most laughable was the ‘Boris is a decent human being’ quip
I doubt even Carrie believes that in light of his personal history alone

[jim360]

Inasmuch as Johnson's apologised, he's had to be dragged there over months. A forced apology, when it's also clear that you don't think you (or anyone else for that matter) have done anything wrong, is not an apology worth taking note of. We'll see how sincere Johnson is, or is not, when the criminal enquiry concludes and when Sue Gray's full report, which provides actual details of who is involved, is released.

It reminds me not a little of Andrew Lansley's classic non-apology: "I'm sorry that this policy hasn't communicated itself effectively to you." Dude, it was *your* job to communicate the policy...

[Stickybottle]

Simon Hoare
Tory MP tweets :

FWIW: 1) the Sue Gray report must be published in full; 2) likewise any Met report; 3) if fines are issued we should know; 4) the Jimmy Savile false allegation should be withdrawn.

He certainly gets it !

How odd that the Labour Party are not making a song and dance about the Savile slur but are maintaining dignity over it but it is Tory MPs who are AGAIN calling out the PM on his behaviour

Boris boosts Starmer’s profile daily
No wonder the Tories are divided

[Stickybottle]

Anthony Mangnall MP joins Elwood with a tweet :

Standards in public life matter.
At this time I can no longer support the PM. His actions and mistruths are overshadowing the extraordinary work of so many excellent ministers and colleagues.
I have submitted a letter of no confidence.

Is momentum moving towards the required number ?

[jim360]

I expect Johnson will stay in office for at least the next couple of months, or at any rate until the Police investigation into the parties is concluded. At that point, if Johnson escapes any fine, then he'll probably be OK; but if Johnson is among those fined for a breach in Covid restrictions, I'm not sure how that's sustainable.

[Khandro]

jim: //if Johnson is among those fined for a breach in Covid restrictions, I'm not sure how that's sustainable.//

It would be just & no worse than a speeding fine.

[Stickybottle]

Khandro
jim: //if Johnson is among those fined for a breach in Covid restrictions, I'm not sure how that's sustainable.//

It would be just & no worse than a speeding fine.
———-
No comparison in those circumstances
The public and relatives of the Covid dead would take a different view I guess ?

[Ellipsis]

Having a party isn't a resigning matter, but misleading Parliament is.

How could Parliament tolerate a leader that breaks such a fundamental rule? It couldn't trust a word he said.

[Stickybottle]

Ellipsis
Having a party isn't a resigning matter, but misleading Parliament is.
———
Come on Ellipsis !
You know it currently ‘may have inadvertently’ mislead !
Lol

[Khandro]

Mozz //I think you underestimate how many people are disgusted by his behaviour.//

Don't underestimate the people who say nothing & keep their council.
It's those who are anti who are shouting out the loudest in mock indignation, just like those 10 or 11 Tory back benchers; small in numbers, but plastered all over the media.

[poorclare]

NO