Ukraine's Abuse Of The Disabled

[naomi24]

//BBC News has gained access to institutions in Ukraine where widespread abuse and mistreatment of disabled people has been uncovered.

Around 100,000 children and young people live in these institutions, which pre-date the war with Russia. //

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-europe-62297526

//Human rights investigators say Ukraine should not join the European Union until it closes these institutions.//

Coming at this time, obviously controversial …. but are they right?

I caught a bit of the BBC report on television but couldn't watch for long. Just horrendous.

[ichkeria]

"You can sign up to the ECHR without being a member of the EU. "

Logic failure there
You need to get your HR in order to join the EU.
Ukraine wants to join the EU not the ECHR specifically.

[sandyRoe]

The Iron Curtain retarded the development of all unfortunate enough to have lived behind it. It seems to be still the case that the further East you go in Europe the less are human rights respected.

[sp1814]

ichkeria

Ukraine can join the EU without signing up to the ECHR. At least that's what protocol 8 suggests:

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/legislative-train/theme-a-new-push-for-european-democracy/file-completion-of-eu-accession-to-the-echr

Expanded here:

https://www.eeas.europa.eu/delegations/council-europe/negotiations-accession-eu-echr_en?s=51

[ichkeria]

I can only repeat what I said above sp: Ukraine wants to joing the EU and to do that issues like the one naomi highlights need to addressed.
Pretty plainly.
I am not sure who first mentioned signing up to the ECHR, but it's a bit of a red herring: Ukraine has been a member of that since the 1990s.
Russia was a member, which why it ceased using the death penalty (officially)
Belarus is all places was a "guest member" apparently!

[sp1814]

ichkeria

I get ya...you're 100% right.

I referred to the ECHR in response to an earlier post about Ukraine not being up to Western ideals and standard - that would be an ECHR thing.

[ichkeria]

Well, I think it's very much an EU thing too and in the case of the EU more than just a rubber stamp, box-tick or whatever.
I think we'd both agree regardless that the situation needs to change.

[sp1814]

ichkeria

Yes...you'd think that film was made in 1945 after hostilities ceased. In fact I'm pretty sure there IS a very similar film of mentally ill kids from German hospitals at that time.

[youngmafbog]

//They really don’t. You can sign up to the ECHR without being a member of the EU.//

You are the one who bought up the ECHR not me.

[youngmafbog]

//I referred to the ECHR in response to an earlier post about Ukraine not being up to Western ideals and standard - that would be an ECHR thing.//

No it wouldnt, you yourself have written about how many havnt signed up. I wrotge nothing about the ECHR, its you trying to make me look stupid but its backfired hasnt it mate.

[youngmafbog]

FRom the EU's own site:
"stable institutions guaranteeing democracy, the rule of law, human rights and respect for and protection of minorities;"

https://ec.europa.eu/neighbourhood-enlargement/enlargement-policy/conditions-membership_en

No mention of the ECHR to achieve the harmony.

[sp1814]

Okay youngmafbog - good point!

[sp1814]

I genuinely wasn’t trying to make you look stupid. I was referring back to your point “ it is highly unlikely Ukraine is up to Western ideals and standards in many ways.”

Western ideals and standards are enshrined in the protocols set out in the ECHR.

That’s why I mentioned it. Certainly not trying to make you look like an idiot.

[sp1814]

But that’s beside the point - I see what you mean now.

[mibn2cweus]

Where does it say they are refusing to provide what help they have to offer or are refusing the help of those who have the means to help these unfortunate people? And if these institutions are closed what then becomes of those in their care?

[douglas9401]

"And if these institutions are closed what then becomes of those in their care?"

Same as here I suppose. Close institutions and invent something called care in the community or the like, leaving things up to family, volunteers and very low-paid workers.

What could possibly go wrong?

[emmie]

thousands out on the streets, that's what could go wrong.

[douglas9401]

That was kinda the point.

[sp1814]

Shutting down the hospitals and throwing all the patients onto the streets hasn’t been proper has it?

Was this put forward a solution earlier in the thread!

[sp1814]

Perhaps the point of the report was to raise awareness - I’m sure that these images would’ve come as a shock to many. - the problem is that even if aid could be directed to these institutions, the issues remain - the attitude to mental illness in Eastern Europe is quite different from ours.

[sp1814]

‘proper’ should’ve been ‘proposed’.