Ukraine's Abuse Of The Disabled

[naomi24]

//BBC News has gained access to institutions in Ukraine where widespread abuse and mistreatment of disabled people has been uncovered.

Around 100,000 children and young people live in these institutions, which pre-date the war with Russia. //

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-europe-62297526

//Human rights investigators say Ukraine should not join the European Union until it closes these institutions.//

Coming at this time, obviously controversial …. but are they right?

I caught a bit of the BBC report on television but couldn't watch for long. Just horrendous.

[ichkeria]

Of course. as with Romania for example, this is one of the issues that needs to be addressed before Ukraine joins the EU in a few years time.
Of course ensuring there IS a Ukraine to join needs to be sorted out first.

[Ellipsis]

It was horrendous, it is horrendous and has become even worse since the war started.

[ichkeria]

On the other hand, Ukraine has a proud record of achievement in disabled sport. Sadly, cultural issues I'm afraid have led to this widespread abuse and neglect, specifically to the mentally handicapped (I realise that isn't the proper term but whatever).
This is also an oissue
https://newint.org/features/web-exclusive/2018/08/23/locked-away-forever-ukraine-psychiatric-institutions
I've been in Ukrainian hospitals and they are a curious mixture of care and poverty.

[sp1814]

Could only watch this up to he bit with Lesha.

Christ.

Are they right? I don't know what prompted the report, but it highlights something someone told me a few weeks ago - in conflict alot of people want a simple good guy / bad guy narrative. True truth can be a whole lot messier.

I don't doubt for a moment that this is peculiar to Ukraine.

[ichkeria]

"has become even worse since the war started.

Russia has deliberately targeted hundreds of hospitals - and schools - since February. That doesn't excuse the problem in the first place (which btw is probably worse in Russia). One good thing is that the war is bringing this to light.

[nero2024]

awful, but what's the answer, putting them in the community? then most will be in a worse state if that's possible and families having these poor souls back will not cope, there's not enough staff at that institution to care for them and who would want to work there anyway, seems there no real answer to this

[youngmafbog]

Need a bit more than a BBC report, which as we know from the Bashir incident, may not be the whole truth.

Having said that it is highly unlikely Ukraine is up to Western ideals and standards in many ways. But isnt that the idea of bringing them in, so we all sing in harmony?

[nero2024]

btw Britain has had it shameful episodes regarding this subject

[youngmafbog]

Unfortunately putting people back into the community doesnt work for all. It's a difficult one and I'm not sure the West has it right either yet.

[Ellipsis]

> has become even worse since the war started

Some parents and carers have joined the war effort, others find it difficult enough now to care for themselves let alone anybody so utterly dependent.

[sp1814]

youngmafbog

If you search for: https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=ukraine+mental+hospitals&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

You'll see they get quite alot of coverage if you don't trust the BBC.

"But isn't that the idea of bringing them in, so we all sing in harmony?"

I thought Ukraine wanted to join the EU, not sign up to the ECHR???

[ichkeria]

"in conflict alot of people want a simple good guy / bad guy narrative. True truth can be a whole lot messier. "

Nothing to do with that at all.
The war is indeed good v bad but that doesn't extend to saying that every aspect of Ukrainian life is like paradise. If it was Ukraine would be a lot closer to EU status. And if you want to compare this with what happens in Russia, I doubt there is any difference to put it mildly.

[sp1814]

nero2024

Maybe - but in the past surely?

[ichkeria]

"I thought Ukraine wanted to join the EU, not sign up to the ECHR??? "

Romania had the same issue, which had to be sorted before it gained EU membership.

[sp1814]

ichkeria

I was answering the point raised in the OP:

"Coming at this time, obviously controversial …. but are they right?"

[ichkeria]

I think it is an issue that deserves highlighting.
But it is a shame it's had to take a war for people to bother noticing.

People may or may not remember the issues in Ukraine with the treatment of AIDS patients a few years ago.

[youngmafbog]

//I thought Ukraine wanted to join the EU, not sign up to the ECHR???//

Yes, but they go hand in hand.

"stable institutions guaranteeing democracy, the rule of law, human rights and respect for and protection of minorities;"

[maggiebee]

Think we might have to sort our own house out before we go pointing the finger.

[DTCwordfan]

then there's the Irish for their young mother and baby abuse - kick 'em all out I say....

[sp1814]

Youngmafbog

They really don’t. You can sign up to the ECHR without being a member of the EU.

That’s why there are 45 countries signed up to the convention but only 27 countries in the EU (or perhaps 26 - don’t know if this page has been updated since…y’know).