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Has The Last Brexit Promise Just Died?
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Just out of interest, Hymie, have you any firm evidence that any such "promises" were ever made? Or were they just speculative ideas voiced by politicians (and others) on the possible consequences of Brexit. I can recall a number of predictions being made by the Remain side, few of which have transpired. But I didn't view them as "promises", just as speculation by politicians eager to get the electorate to vote the way they wanted. Of course, if you had not believed any politicians, you would not have been so disappointed.
New Judge,
//I can recall a number of predictions being made by the Remain side, few of which have transpired. But I didn't view them as "promises", just as speculation by politicians eager to get the electorate to vote the way they wanted.//
Care to list them, because atm it appears to be even worse than any of them predicted.
Contrast that with the ‘we will never have it so good’ predictions and forecasts and it’s turned out to be the polar opposite.
But at least we’ve got the warm glow of sovereignty to keep us warm during the winter eh?
Funny though how those who deride the OP can’t actually point out any of the benefits that have manifested themselves thus far? They’re pertinent questions but they’re perpetually evaded.
Anyone?
//I can recall a number of predictions being made by the Remain side, few of which have transpired. But I didn't view them as "promises", just as speculation by politicians eager to get the electorate to vote the way they wanted.//
Care to list them, because atm it appears to be even worse than any of them predicted.
Contrast that with the ‘we will never have it so good’ predictions and forecasts and it’s turned out to be the polar opposite.
But at least we’ve got the warm glow of sovereignty to keep us warm during the winter eh?
Funny though how those who deride the OP can’t actually point out any of the benefits that have manifested themselves thus far? They’re pertinent questions but they’re perpetually evaded.
Anyone?
//Funny though how those who deride the OP can’t actually point out any of the benefits that have manifested themselves thus far?//
But I didn't expect any immediate benefits so to keep asking (me, anyway) the same question is pointless. All I expected was for the UK to no longer be an EU member and that has been achieved.
There are lots of things going on in the world at present which are destabilising the global economy and to disentangle them from the effects of Brexit is virtually impossible. EU member nations are suffering many of the same economic problems as the UK - high inflation and high energy prices in particular. The EU has not insulated its members from that and if the UK was still a member it would be suffering similar problems. Just as an example, the EU average inflation rate in August was 10.1% (UK 9.9%). Of the EU economies, inflation in Spain, Greece and the Netherlands are all marginally higher than the UK. The eastern EU nations are around 1.5 times as high as the UK and the Baltic trio are more than double that of the UK. EU membership has not protected them against high inflation and nor would it have shielded the UK.
We're out of the EU so you need to get used to it. Whatever "promises" you believe were made in the referendum campaign (by either side) were nothing of the sort. They were simply idle speculation by people eager for you to vote the way they wanted you to.
But I didn't expect any immediate benefits so to keep asking (me, anyway) the same question is pointless. All I expected was for the UK to no longer be an EU member and that has been achieved.
There are lots of things going on in the world at present which are destabilising the global economy and to disentangle them from the effects of Brexit is virtually impossible. EU member nations are suffering many of the same economic problems as the UK - high inflation and high energy prices in particular. The EU has not insulated its members from that and if the UK was still a member it would be suffering similar problems. Just as an example, the EU average inflation rate in August was 10.1% (UK 9.9%). Of the EU economies, inflation in Spain, Greece and the Netherlands are all marginally higher than the UK. The eastern EU nations are around 1.5 times as high as the UK and the Baltic trio are more than double that of the UK. EU membership has not protected them against high inflation and nor would it have shielded the UK.
We're out of the EU so you need to get used to it. Whatever "promises" you believe were made in the referendum campaign (by either side) were nothing of the sort. They were simply idle speculation by people eager for you to vote the way they wanted you to.
https:/
From that link:
/Have the ‘achievements’ actually been delivered?
The 76 ‘benefits’ are framed as ‘achieved so far’, but the picture is more complicated.
Since leaving the EU the UK now has a new immigration system, is almost entirely independent from the European Court of Justice (bar its role in Northern Ireland under the protocol) and is reshaping the agricultural support regime.
But many of the ‘achievements’ are still in the policy development stage or have yet to start, with reform of financial service regulation and the review of retained EU law still underway. And for ‘achievements’ expressed as outcomes rather than specific actions – such as 'defending UK economic interests' – it is difficult to say these have been fully delivered./
So add all that onto the fact that we’re not getting a UK/US trade deal any time in the next 10 years will leave us where?
In limbo as the poor man of Europe? Our closest ally(even when under Trump) is not interested, so how is Truss expecting to get the economy moving again? Oh yeah, by uncapping bankers bonuses!
Let’s be honest, this turd ain’t gonna be buffed to a high shine and we don’t even have any glitter to roll it in, do we?
Well, not unless you count sovereignty.
From that link:
/Have the ‘achievements’ actually been delivered?
The 76 ‘benefits’ are framed as ‘achieved so far’, but the picture is more complicated.
Since leaving the EU the UK now has a new immigration system, is almost entirely independent from the European Court of Justice (bar its role in Northern Ireland under the protocol) and is reshaping the agricultural support regime.
But many of the ‘achievements’ are still in the policy development stage or have yet to start, with reform of financial service regulation and the review of retained EU law still underway. And for ‘achievements’ expressed as outcomes rather than specific actions – such as 'defending UK economic interests' – it is difficult to say these have been fully delivered./
So add all that onto the fact that we’re not getting a UK/US trade deal any time in the next 10 years will leave us where?
In limbo as the poor man of Europe? Our closest ally(even when under Trump) is not interested, so how is Truss expecting to get the economy moving again? Oh yeah, by uncapping bankers bonuses!
Let’s be honest, this turd ain’t gonna be buffed to a high shine and we don’t even have any glitter to roll it in, do we?
Well, not unless you count sovereignty.
New Judge,
//We're out of the EU so you need to get used to it. Whatever "promises" you believe were made in the referendum campaign (by either side) were nothing of the sort.//
But again, earlier you said there were predictions made but the Remain side that have not transpired so I’ll ask again, what specifically were those?
Or is it that, as I suspect we were sold a lie on the back of what are now obviously wild speculations by jingoistic flag-shaggers who’ve actually brought about none of the forecast benefits and it’s dawning on so many that we have in fact cut off our nose to spite our face? That’s certainly how it’s looking but very few will publicly admit it.
//We're out of the EU so you need to get used to it. Whatever "promises" you believe were made in the referendum campaign (by either side) were nothing of the sort.//
But again, earlier you said there were predictions made but the Remain side that have not transpired so I’ll ask again, what specifically were those?
Or is it that, as I suspect we were sold a lie on the back of what are now obviously wild speculations by jingoistic flag-shaggers who’ve actually brought about none of the forecast benefits and it’s dawning on so many that we have in fact cut off our nose to spite our face? That’s certainly how it’s looking but very few will publicly admit it.
//So add all that onto the fact that we’re not getting a UK/US trade deal any time in the next 10 years will leave us where?//
Why do you keep prattling on about a US:UK trade deal? We didn't have one as EU members, we still haven't got one and are unlikely to see on in the foreseeable future, and neither are they.
All this debate is pointless. We're out of the EU and are unlikely ever to rejoin..
Why do you keep prattling on about a US:UK trade deal? We didn't have one as EU members, we still haven't got one and are unlikely to see on in the foreseeable future, and neither are they.
All this debate is pointless. We're out of the EU and are unlikely ever to rejoin..
New Judge,
//Why do you keep prattling on about a US:UK trade deal? We didn't have one as EU members, we still haven't got one and are unlikely to see on in the foreseeable future, and neither are they.//
Because it was a forecast and prediction by the Brexiteers but especially Johnson that would be of huge benefit to the UK.
Why are you yourself prattling about Remainers that made predictions that haven’t transpired yet you can’t list them and have avoided it since I asked?
That sovereignty you so longed for as a result of Brexit now looks like a clapped-out Cortina in contrast to the gleaming Bentley of Brexit that the dodgy car salesmen of said Brexit promised, doesn’t it?
//Why do you keep prattling on about a US:UK trade deal? We didn't have one as EU members, we still haven't got one and are unlikely to see on in the foreseeable future, and neither are they.//
Because it was a forecast and prediction by the Brexiteers but especially Johnson that would be of huge benefit to the UK.
Why are you yourself prattling about Remainers that made predictions that haven’t transpired yet you can’t list them and have avoided it since I asked?
That sovereignty you so longed for as a result of Brexit now looks like a clapped-out Cortina in contrast to the gleaming Bentley of Brexit that the dodgy car salesmen of said Brexit promised, doesn’t it?
royfromaus
//Remainers that made predictions that haven’t transpired yet you can’t list them and have avoided it since I asked?
If you don't know the answer to your own question...you are either thick or blinkered.//
Lol, but thankfully not as thick as you. I didn’t raise the issue, New Judge did. Sadly he’s not answered yet, unless you want to step in and do so?
But why would I ask a question I know the answer to? You do know how the Answerbank works, don’t you?
A question is asked and hopefully answers are forthcoming.
I genuinely don’t know what predictions Remainers made that haven’t transpired, that’s why I asked.
Luckily, you didn’t make yourself look too silly this time, but the day is young.
//Remainers that made predictions that haven’t transpired yet you can’t list them and have avoided it since I asked?
If you don't know the answer to your own question...you are either thick or blinkered.//
Lol, but thankfully not as thick as you. I didn’t raise the issue, New Judge did. Sadly he’s not answered yet, unless you want to step in and do so?
But why would I ask a question I know the answer to? You do know how the Answerbank works, don’t you?
A question is asked and hopefully answers are forthcoming.
I genuinely don’t know what predictions Remainers made that haven’t transpired, that’s why I asked.
Luckily, you didn’t make yourself look too silly this time, but the day is young.
//Why are you yourself prattling about Remainers that made predictions that haven’t transpired yet you can’t list them and have avoided it since I asked?//
I’ve done so before. I’ll do it once more, just a few:
**A Shock to the economy**
The prediction: George Osborne, as Chancellor of the Exchequer, stated: “A vote to leave would represent an immediate and profound shock to our economy. That shock would push our economy into a recession and lead to an increase in unemployment of around 500,000.”
The result: Didn’t even come close. UK unemployment is the lowest it’s been for years with job vacancies in many sectors. A recession is on the horizon but that is more to do with the energy cost crisis and rampant inflation (which all of Europe and much of the rest of the world is suffering).
**Property Values**
The prediction: Osborne also said opting for Brexit would “affect the value of people’s homes” to the tune of 18 per cent. The Treasury small print suggested this would be over two years and that prices would rise by 18 per cent less than forecast.
The outcome: I’ll leave you to look at the increase in house prices over the past six years.
**EU nationals resident in the UK to be “sent home”**
The prediction: A constant refrain was that Brexit was motivated by xenophobia. Will Straw, Director of Stronger In, announced that the EU nationals living in the UK would be “sent home”.
The outcome: In fact, they were offered “settled status” which the vast majority took up.
**Stock Market crash**
The prediction: Christine Lagarde, the IMF’s managing director, was among those forecasting a long term and serious fall in the value of equities.
On June 23rd 2016, the day of the EU referendum, the FTSE 100 closing price was 6,338. It is now 7,200 (or thereabouts). We were told that the FTSE 100 didn’t count as it covered big international companies. The FTSE 250 was a better measure. So, the FTSE 250 closed at 17,333 on June 23rd 2016. Today it is on 18,700. Both these indices have been higher since the vote but both, in common with most stock market values across the globe, have suffered since the invasion of Ukraine and the accompanying energy price crisis. There was an initial sharp fall in share prices – prompting Remainers to declare that France had overtaken us as the World’s fifth largest economy. But that did not last long.
**A hard border between Northern Ireland and the Irish Republic**
The prediction (George Osborne again): “There would have to be a hardening of the border imposed by the British Government or indeed by the Irish Government and that would have an impact on business.” Others went further predicting customs posts and border checks, even a return to “the troubles”.
The outcome: Whilst the NI question is far from settled, the border remains open, there have been no customs posts or border checks implemented, “The Troubles” have not returned. Work needs to be done to abandon or radically modify the NI Protocol, but none of the predictions regarding the border have materialised.
None of this matters much really because I did not believe these predictions any more than I believed we would have a trade deal with the US signed quickly, if at all, so I’m neither surprised nor disappointed.
I’ve done so before. I’ll do it once more, just a few:
**A Shock to the economy**
The prediction: George Osborne, as Chancellor of the Exchequer, stated: “A vote to leave would represent an immediate and profound shock to our economy. That shock would push our economy into a recession and lead to an increase in unemployment of around 500,000.”
The result: Didn’t even come close. UK unemployment is the lowest it’s been for years with job vacancies in many sectors. A recession is on the horizon but that is more to do with the energy cost crisis and rampant inflation (which all of Europe and much of the rest of the world is suffering).
**Property Values**
The prediction: Osborne also said opting for Brexit would “affect the value of people’s homes” to the tune of 18 per cent. The Treasury small print suggested this would be over two years and that prices would rise by 18 per cent less than forecast.
The outcome: I’ll leave you to look at the increase in house prices over the past six years.
**EU nationals resident in the UK to be “sent home”**
The prediction: A constant refrain was that Brexit was motivated by xenophobia. Will Straw, Director of Stronger In, announced that the EU nationals living in the UK would be “sent home”.
The outcome: In fact, they were offered “settled status” which the vast majority took up.
**Stock Market crash**
The prediction: Christine Lagarde, the IMF’s managing director, was among those forecasting a long term and serious fall in the value of equities.
On June 23rd 2016, the day of the EU referendum, the FTSE 100 closing price was 6,338. It is now 7,200 (or thereabouts). We were told that the FTSE 100 didn’t count as it covered big international companies. The FTSE 250 was a better measure. So, the FTSE 250 closed at 17,333 on June 23rd 2016. Today it is on 18,700. Both these indices have been higher since the vote but both, in common with most stock market values across the globe, have suffered since the invasion of Ukraine and the accompanying energy price crisis. There was an initial sharp fall in share prices – prompting Remainers to declare that France had overtaken us as the World’s fifth largest economy. But that did not last long.
**A hard border between Northern Ireland and the Irish Republic**
The prediction (George Osborne again): “There would have to be a hardening of the border imposed by the British Government or indeed by the Irish Government and that would have an impact on business.” Others went further predicting customs posts and border checks, even a return to “the troubles”.
The outcome: Whilst the NI question is far from settled, the border remains open, there have been no customs posts or border checks implemented, “The Troubles” have not returned. Work needs to be done to abandon or radically modify the NI Protocol, but none of the predictions regarding the border have materialised.
None of this matters much really because I did not believe these predictions any more than I believed we would have a trade deal with the US signed quickly, if at all, so I’m neither surprised nor disappointed.
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