Quizzes & Puzzles4 mins ago
Bring Back The Word 'Woman' Nhs Told
//The word "woman" must be used on NHS websites for cancer and pregnancy information, more than 1,000 doctors, nurses and health workers have told the service…. A letter drawn up by the Clinical Advisory Network on Sex and Gender, which is made up of NHS staff, said dropping the use of the word was disrespectful… Specifically, the NHS must use women's words for women's bodies and women's health problems... NHS.UK healthcare messaging shows a lack of concern for women, is disrespectful and insults women.//
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Hear hear … but not only is airbrushing 'women' out disrespectful and insulting - giving the impression that people other than women (dare I say men?) are also affected by health problems and conditions that can apply only to women is just plain stupid. Why aren't they saying that too?
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Hear hear … but not only is airbrushing 'women' out disrespectful and insulting - giving the impression that people other than women (dare I say men?) are also affected by health problems and conditions that can apply only to women is just plain stupid. Why aren't they saying that too?
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I have no problem with anyone dressing however or calling themselves whatever they like - but I can't honestly understand how someone like Eddie Izzard (obviously a man) expects to be called anything other than a man whether or not he wears a dress. If someone has transitioned and had body parts changed then they are what they have changed into and should be called that, but until they do they are still what they are born. Doesn't make any difference how they live their lifestyle, you can't argue with biology.
Why has this, as usual become a whole discussion about trans people? This is about the rights of women who want to be referred to as women when they are dealing with female medical conditions. It has nothing to do with transgenderism. Presumably those who have become women would also in the main, want to be called women??
Clare, I couldn’t care less what you call yourself. I'll always call members here by the name they're registered with or an acceptable alternative (OG for example), but if 'asking' is equivalent to telling someone that if they call a trans person 'him' they will get a slap, as you told me, all I can say is it's an alarming definition of 'asking'.
As for ''Site Rules', my principles take precedence. Odd though that someone who claims to advocate free speech uses curtailment as a potential silencer. Just a bit hypocritical, wouldn't you say?
//And if it genuinely bothers you then there are easy neutral ways around it -- by, for example, always referring to someone in the third person by their name.//
But why should I be obliged to pussyfoot around it and why do you expect me to? If it bothers you why do you think it shouldn't bother me?
The point here is - and see the OP - real women are being sidelined and airbrushed out of our language and the result is gender has become an irrelevance. It doesn’t mean anything. It wouldn't be fair to say that no one knows who anyone is any more because the sad thing is we do know who people are but are obliged to deny it. How crazy is it to ask men if they might be pregnant? Medical professionals above all should know men don't have the equipment to become pregnant. And yet it happens - paying lip service to a lie - and here we are with new definitions - people who menstruate, people who have cervixes, people who give birth - all more suitably described by a perfectly correct word that when spoken by J K Rowling brought her death threats - women.
There's something very wrong with all of this.
As for ''Site Rules', my principles take precedence. Odd though that someone who claims to advocate free speech uses curtailment as a potential silencer. Just a bit hypocritical, wouldn't you say?
//And if it genuinely bothers you then there are easy neutral ways around it -- by, for example, always referring to someone in the third person by their name.//
But why should I be obliged to pussyfoot around it and why do you expect me to? If it bothers you why do you think it shouldn't bother me?
The point here is - and see the OP - real women are being sidelined and airbrushed out of our language and the result is gender has become an irrelevance. It doesn’t mean anything. It wouldn't be fair to say that no one knows who anyone is any more because the sad thing is we do know who people are but are obliged to deny it. How crazy is it to ask men if they might be pregnant? Medical professionals above all should know men don't have the equipment to become pregnant. And yet it happens - paying lip service to a lie - and here we are with new definitions - people who menstruate, people who have cervixes, people who give birth - all more suitably described by a perfectly correct word that when spoken by J K Rowling brought her death threats - women.
There's something very wrong with all of this.
I'm asking only for respect. It stands to reason that if someone refused to do that, then as a first choice I'd just not interact with them at all. But if for whatever reason that weren't possible, and if in particular they continued to deliberately refer to me around others in a way that was manifestly disrespectful, then at some point it becomes a more serious issue. Also, often it goes beyond just "sticking to your principles" and strays into actively bullying or harassment. You can see this in the way goodgoalie refers to that contestant Emily, whose surname I can't remember now, on University Challenge -- calling it toe-curling, saying she should be embarrassed, and presumably just generally implying that she shouldn't dare be out in the way she wishes in a public setting. There's something more than troubling about that attitude, and it saddens me that it's largely passed without comment.
For the specific question of medical advice, the primary aim should obviously be that it's directed to those who need it as clearly as possible. For many female health issues, that includes trans men, or non-binary people assigned female at birth (and, of course, excludes trans women). I don't see anything wrong, then, with something to the effect of bobbinwales's suggestion -- use "woman" throughout the advice, but make clear at the beginning that this doesn't include trans women, *does* include trans men, and should be understood in a purely medical setting. In private interactions between a doctor and their patient, then the language used is, well, private, although again the primary goal would be to ensure that the correct advice is given.
For the specific question of medical advice, the primary aim should obviously be that it's directed to those who need it as clearly as possible. For many female health issues, that includes trans men, or non-binary people assigned female at birth (and, of course, excludes trans women). I don't see anything wrong, then, with something to the effect of bobbinwales's suggestion -- use "woman" throughout the advice, but make clear at the beginning that this doesn't include trans women, *does* include trans men, and should be understood in a purely medical setting. In private interactions between a doctor and their patient, then the language used is, well, private, although again the primary goal would be to ensure that the correct advice is given.
"As for ''Site Rules', my principles take precedence"
If I felt like that I would wonder if it was appropriate for me to continue in my role as a moderator, the main purpose of which is to uphold those very rules. I have reported your post for editorial consideration, but will not further discuss it here.
If I felt like that I would wonder if it was appropriate for me to continue in my role as a moderator, the main purpose of which is to uphold those very rules. I have reported your post for editorial consideration, but will not further discuss it here.
For most members, I don't know whether they are male or female and I therefore use third person plural as I would in real life.
In Clare's case, I have seen that her name is female (by looking at her profile URL), so I call her she.
If you call her "him", that's disrespectful. If it helps, remember that this is not real life, just AB ... how do we know how anyone really is?
https:/
In Clare's case, I have seen that her name is female (by looking at her profile URL), so I call her she.
If you call her "him", that's disrespectful. If it helps, remember that this is not real life, just AB ... how do we know how anyone really is?
https:/
// giving the impression that people other than women (dare I say men?) are also affected by health problems and conditions that can apply only to women is just plain stupid. //
Freddy McConnell (Freddy the Seahorse) obtained a gender recognition certificate in 2017. Freddy is legally male. Freddy gave birth in 2018. Males can be afflicted by "women's health problems".
Freddy McConnell (Freddy the Seahorse) obtained a gender recognition certificate in 2017. Freddy is legally male. Freddy gave birth in 2018. Males can be afflicted by "women's health problems".
//If I felt like that I would wonder if it was appropriate for me to continue in my role as a moderator, the main purpose of which is to uphold those very rules. I have reported your post for editorial consideration, but will not further discuss it here.//
I am not sure veiled threats like that public make for a good Moderator, but then many shouldn't be IMHO.
I am not sure veiled threats like that public make for a good Moderator, but then many shouldn't be IMHO.
If Naomi is allowed to use her "principles" rather than Site Rules to moderate us I'm off.
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