Finally Some Common Sense

[youngmafbog]

Single-sex schools will be able to reject transgender pupils and teachers can refuse to call children by their preferred pronouns under new Government guidelines

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11983441/Single-sex-schools-able-reject-transgender-pupils-new-Government-guidelines.html

[Untitled]

if any readers want to know what actual neo-fascism might look like in nascent form then they might consider looking at the anti-trans laws presently being enacted by some states in the USA... that's actual discrimination not merely being criticised for making bigoted statements

i don't think you would know fascism if it goose-stepped over and bit you in the bum toratoratora!

[lankeela]

Say whaaaat?

[ClareTG0ld]

btw untitled, If we had time, and space, and a different thread, I'd love to hear more about your journey to the light. I have, as I say, seen Contrapoints (often), but I didn't quite know how seriously to take the idea that her output would be so successfully persuasive.

[naomi24]

//journey to the light//

That sounds almost .... religious. I wonder if there's a reason for that?

[ClareTG0ld]

Yeah, the reason is that it's a figure of speech.

[naomi24]

:o)

[Untitled]

it is not terribly interesting to be honest clare lol... i had never given it much thought at all before jk rowling's essay and i took that at face value and leaped to her defense without knowing very much about the topic... silly i know but we all do it online dont we

i listed contrapoints because she is a resource that anybody can go and look at ... i really like her but her videos are intended for "youtubey" people and if someone doesnt like that kind of thing i dont know if it will be useful... i actually read "trans like me" before i watched anything and before that read a few articles that i now do not remember... it was enough to tell me that i had rushed to judgement about people i did not understand. despite my ungrammatical writing on forums like this i read quite a lot and from there i read some fiction by trans writers that blew me away!!

[naomi24]

//i had rushed to judgement about people i did not understand.//

Coming from a man, I'd hazard an educated guess that'll be women.

[Untitled]

you're really not coming across very well in this thread naomi i have to tell you

[naomi24]

Because I disagree with your agenda. You'll get over it - or maybe not. ;o)

[Untitled]

what a profoundly sad answer

[naomi24]

Sad because it's true ... yes, sad indeed.

[ClareTG0ld]

Perhaps you don't find your journey that interesting, untitled, but, still, as I say, I draw some comfort from it.

I'd encourage Naomi, and others, to watch this video, and many others like it, from both Contrapoints and I suppose also PhilosophyTube, and other video essayists. They're well worth your time.

[naomi24]

ClareTG0ld, I had a brief look at that - a minute or two in told me there's no way I'm going to spend almost two hours with it - but I did take a moment to read some reviews, a quite comprehensive one of which concludes that contrary to the claims that the podcast wants to have a conversation, what it really wants to do is give a sermon.

Additionally, an investigation into the presenter's past reveals that she is an ex-member of the thoroughly barmy Wesboro Baptist Church. Seems even though the woman has turned her back on that dreadful organisation, she can't resist a mission.

Worth my time it is not.

[naomi24]

Incidentally, ClareTG0ld, you may - or may not - be interested in trans journalist Deborah Hayton's take on it - and I quote, "The assertion trans women are women and trans men are men is without foundation, but it is a rallying call of a movement that threatens women's sex-based rights."

The report I read goes on to say, "None of this is to be unsympathetic to people who believe they are trapped in the wrong body and wish to live as the opposite sex. Every effort should be made or make their lives more comfortable and protect their dignity. Just not at the expense of half of the population.'

I can't remember where the report came from - I have only a newspaper clipping - but I go along with that. Just don't ask me to resort to lying in order to indulge you.

[ClareTG0ld]

There's something almost impressive about saying that you performed "an investigation into the presenters past", and then proceed to get everything following thay entirely wrong.

You've confused Megan Phelps-Roper, who did the podcast "The Witch Trials of JK Rowling", which incidentally gives Rowling a relatively safe space to share her views and motivations, and inasmuch as she preaches anything, only preaches engagement on all sides and to avoid radicalisation, with Natalie Wynn, who presents the video I shared. She also appears in said podcast, by the way, but entirely regrets doing so.

[ClareTG0ld]

I've heard of Deborah Hayton. She reminds me somewhat of antisuffrage women, in that she acts against her own interests. Such people always exist, it seems.

[naomi24]

ClareTG0ld, I was talking about the podcast. As for the journalist, we're not all self-obsessed and some people are principled enough to stand up and be counted - even if it isn't necessarily in their best interests.

[naomi24]

Interesting that you mention "a relatively safe space to share her [J K Rowling's] views and motivations". Very telling that 'a relatively safe space' should even be a consideration - especially for someone who is doing no more than telling the truth..

[ClareTG0ld]

I think the problem is that Hayton is a hypocrite. As an example, Hayton's passport says "F" for female, which doesn't make any sense if you are going to adopt the "trans women are men" line.

It's difficult to quite understand the motivation, but it probably comes from an internalised self-loathing, and then turning that outward. It's the sort of thing to be pitied, rather than admired. Oh, and given that basically Hayton is the go-to source for most media outlets on transgender issues, I wouldn't be entirely surprised if it was attention-seeking on some level.

It seems to me quite revealing, though, that you did some at best cursory research in order to find one of the very few transgender people who agrees with you, and in the process ignoring the far vaster number who do not. And quite revealing, too, that you thought that Hayton's existence and views might be somehow news to me.