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Finally Some Common Sense
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Single-sex schools will be able to reject transgender pupils and teachers can refuse to call children by their preferred pronouns under new Government guidelines
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Oh, I see where you are coming from now.
Sadly it is protection from people who will use it for their own ill gotten gains. Flashers paedophiles who will 'claim' to be trans to gain access to areas they can carry out their perversion.
The other protection is for people like the School teacher above. It should not be a minefield for them they should be concentrating on teaching not watching pronouns. The school also will receive protection from being sued for 'mistakes'.
And lastly protection for women's rights. No group should ride roughshod over another's rights, which is what is currently happening. The Activists are not doing everyday trans peoiple any favours believe me.
Hopefully that explains 'protection' it is not protection from everyday trans people, jsut activists and perverts using it as a cloak.
Sadly it is protection from people who will use it for their own ill gotten gains. Flashers paedophiles who will 'claim' to be trans to gain access to areas they can carry out their perversion.
The other protection is for people like the School teacher above. It should not be a minefield for them they should be concentrating on teaching not watching pronouns. The school also will receive protection from being sued for 'mistakes'.
And lastly protection for women's rights. No group should ride roughshod over another's rights, which is what is currently happening. The Activists are not doing everyday trans peoiple any favours believe me.
Hopefully that explains 'protection' it is not protection from everyday trans people, jsut activists and perverts using it as a cloak.
// Hopefully that explains 'protection' it is not protection from everyday trans people, just activists and perverts using it as a cloak. //
I suppose the question, then, is how do you tell the "everyday trans people" from the "activists and perverts". After all, there are genuine "everyday trans people" at school.
I suppose the question, then, is how do you tell the "everyday trans people" from the "activists and perverts". After all, there are genuine "everyday trans people" at school.
"Hopefully that explains 'protection' it is not protection from everyday trans people, jsut activists and perverts using it as a cloak."
conflation of the two is a standard tactic of bigots.... one should not discriminate against all trans people because of the risk of predators... one takes action against predators
and yes naomi when people - including you and including the government - say bigoted things then I will use the appropriate language. I suggest you think about what your antipathy toward "woke" actually amounts to and where it comes from
conflation of the two is a standard tactic of bigots.... one should not discriminate against all trans people because of the risk of predators... one takes action against predators
and yes naomi when people - including you and including the government - say bigoted things then I will use the appropriate language. I suggest you think about what your antipathy toward "woke" actually amounts to and where it comes from
//…saying it's about "protection" is meaningless unless you think people need to be protected from trans people.//
Not quite. The protection spoken of is the protection of the rights of (particularly) women to have their own spaces in certain circumstances. It doesn’t mean they need protection from molestation by trans people; it means their spaces need protection from being frequented by men calling themselves women.
Yes, there is the difficulty of distinguishing between a man who is dressed and presents himself as a woman and a genuine woman. But that difficulty does not mean that the principle should be abandoned.
Thankfully I feel that much of the abject nonsense that accompanies this campaign is finally being kicked into touch. I'm particularly pleased that the government has seen fit to give schools some guidance on how to deal with the problems they face. All it needs now is for the teaching staff to regain their senses.
Not quite. The protection spoken of is the protection of the rights of (particularly) women to have their own spaces in certain circumstances. It doesn’t mean they need protection from molestation by trans people; it means their spaces need protection from being frequented by men calling themselves women.
Yes, there is the difficulty of distinguishing between a man who is dressed and presents himself as a woman and a genuine woman. But that difficulty does not mean that the principle should be abandoned.
Thankfully I feel that much of the abject nonsense that accompanies this campaign is finally being kicked into touch. I'm particularly pleased that the government has seen fit to give schools some guidance on how to deal with the problems they face. All it needs now is for the teaching staff to regain their senses.
NJ;
"The protection spoken of is the protection of the rights of (particularly) women to have their own spaces in certain circumstances. It doesn’t mean they need protection from molestation by trans people; it means their spaces need protection from being frequented by men calling themselves women."
You seem to be saying that women are so snowflaky that they are scared of men calling themselves women, but not scared of actual molestation.
"The protection spoken of is the protection of the rights of (particularly) women to have their own spaces in certain circumstances. It doesn’t mean they need protection from molestation by trans people; it means their spaces need protection from being frequented by men calling themselves women."
You seem to be saying that women are so snowflaky that they are scared of men calling themselves women, but not scared of actual molestation.
//You seem to be saying that women are so snowflaky that they are scared of men calling themselves women, but not scared of actual molestation.//
I made the distinction because the argument was seemingly based on women needing protection from men who say they are women. Whilst that may be true, it's not my argument. Even if there was no threat whatsoever to their wellbeing, the plain fact is that there are some places and circumstances where women simply do not welcome the presence of men - including men who say they are women. The same is true the other way round, but I am more concerned with the rights of women, which seem to be more at risk than those of men.
Both sexes are perfectly entitled to these single-sex spaces and facilities, and a man simply declaring he is a women does not trump this entitlement. It's unfortunate that those (relatively very few) people will be inconvenienced, but the rights of the vast majority cannot be overridden for a very small minority. They will have to make some alternative arrangements.
I made the distinction because the argument was seemingly based on women needing protection from men who say they are women. Whilst that may be true, it's not my argument. Even if there was no threat whatsoever to their wellbeing, the plain fact is that there are some places and circumstances where women simply do not welcome the presence of men - including men who say they are women. The same is true the other way round, but I am more concerned with the rights of women, which seem to be more at risk than those of men.
Both sexes are perfectly entitled to these single-sex spaces and facilities, and a man simply declaring he is a women does not trump this entitlement. It's unfortunate that those (relatively very few) people will be inconvenienced, but the rights of the vast majority cannot be overridden for a very small minority. They will have to make some alternative arrangements.
ClareTG0ld, there’s certainly such a thing as bigotry against people who know that men can never be women and that is borne out by the Pink News report of the male GP whose offer to donate blood, as he did frequently, was rejected when he refused, on principle, to answer a question on whether or not he might be pregnant. Their headline reads ‘Man throws embarrassing tantrum …’ and the report continues in a similar derogatory fashion. Fact is, it is neither normal nor necessary to ask if a man is pregnant, but even the NHS has succumbed to this lie - and it is a lie. Meanwhile people who don’t have a ‘gender’ problem going on in their head - and that is where it’s happening - are obliged to watch whilst Orwell’s dystopian Ministry of Truth -which couldn’t have been further from the truth - is, in a multitude of areas, being systematically constructed around them. It’s utter madness - and doubtless that conclusion isn’t acceptable to you either - but so be it. It’s the truth.
I’ll have a go:
Bigotry: (noun). An obstinate or unreasonable attachment to a belief, opinion, or faction, in particular prejudice against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group.
I have an attachment to the belief that a man cannot become a woman by simply declaring that as a fact. I think the definition should be “obstinate **and** unreasonable” rather than “or”. I’m certainly obstinate in that belief but I don’t believe that it is unreasonable. In fact, I believe the very notion is absolutely preposterous.
That said, I’ve no gripe at all with men declaring that they are women. They can declare themselves to be whatever they like, so long as they realise it doesn’t alter the truth and that their declaration does not entitle them to take advantage of spaces and facilities reserved solely for women. I do not class that as a prejudice against them: it’s simply the recognition of an inviolable truth.
As I said earlier, it’s unfortunate that this presents them with problems, but the solution to their problems is not to ditch the rights of women to have their own spaces and facilities, free of biological men. They will have to find other solutions.
Bigotry: (noun). An obstinate or unreasonable attachment to a belief, opinion, or faction, in particular prejudice against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group.
I have an attachment to the belief that a man cannot become a woman by simply declaring that as a fact. I think the definition should be “obstinate **and** unreasonable” rather than “or”. I’m certainly obstinate in that belief but I don’t believe that it is unreasonable. In fact, I believe the very notion is absolutely preposterous.
That said, I’ve no gripe at all with men declaring that they are women. They can declare themselves to be whatever they like, so long as they realise it doesn’t alter the truth and that their declaration does not entitle them to take advantage of spaces and facilities reserved solely for women. I do not class that as a prejudice against them: it’s simply the recognition of an inviolable truth.
As I said earlier, it’s unfortunate that this presents them with problems, but the solution to their problems is not to ditch the rights of women to have their own spaces and facilities, free of biological men. They will have to find other solutions.
That still doesn't answer the question. It only offers a definition of bigotry in a general sense, while providing an example of what it is *not* (in your world-view), when it comes to transgender people. It also doesn't seem to be an answer to argue that you see your opinion as not unreasonable -- that, more or less, goes without saying, for who among us would sincerely hold a belief at the same time that they "know" that belief to be unreasonable?
Transgender people exist. For the sake of argument, we will not fuss about the "correct" gender terminology. Within your world view, are there attitudes towards transgender people that would count as bigotry, and if so what are they?
Transgender people exist. For the sake of argument, we will not fuss about the "correct" gender terminology. Within your world view, are there attitudes towards transgender people that would count as bigotry, and if so what are they?
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