Food & Drink1 min ago
What Are Ordinary Gazans Supposed To Do?
the israeli military has instructed families in gaza city to go south to avoid the bombardment... this family did as they were told and according to this report 13 of them were killed anyway because an airstrike hit their shelter... the young girl being interviewed says she is the only one left.
what are ordinary gazans supposed to do?
Answers
There are more than two sides to this.Also, it's possible to defend a country without inflicting war crimes on innocent people, especially children and babies ...
10:41 Fri 27th Oct 2023
Untitled, for your further information. Seems they don't want to leave.
// Israel has dropped leaflets in Gaza asking for information on the hostages being held by Hamas.
But the Reuters news agency found one person tearing up the appeal for help.
"We don't care, do whatever you [Israeli PM Netanyahu] want, all of us in Gaza are telling you, we are resisting, from the east to west," the man said, as the crowd around him clapped.
"If they want to bomb us, they might as well bomb us while we’re here, we will not leave," the man, Abu Ramadan, continued.
//"We will not be displaced nor evacuated, we lost our homes and our lives.
"We are living in this unsafe place with no shelter, no food, no water, not even water that is suitable for animals, but thank God, we will stay, we will stay here until victory God willing."//
"the "brief alliance" lasted decades and hamas"
No it didn't. You are quoting highly dubious opinion pieces.
But the point Thomas is making, which I personally would not have framed in quite that way, is that this is a war started by Hamas. If you don't think the constant rocket attacks and the barbarism of Oct 7 isn't starting a war then I'm not sure what you would regard as doing so. Hamas would ha r known that by their actions they would provoke such a response
what's "dubious" about them? as best i can tell they are reporting known facts.
here's times of israel if my other sources are not to your liking
"According to various reports, Netanyahu made a similar point at a Likud faction meeting in early 2019, when he was quoted as saying that those who oppose a Palestinian state should support the transfer of funds to Gaza, because maintaining the separation between the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank and Hamas in Gaza would prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state."
the israeli govt has poured money into hamas for years in order to divide the palestinian leadership.
according to this poll some 80% of israeli citizens blame netanyahu for the attacks! when people talk about "intelligence failures" this is what they mean
Netanyahu, who I don't like, has had a pretty much laissez-faire attitude to Hamas.
What it boils down to is an attitude of complacency, despite the constant rocket attacks. However it hasn't stopped Israel taking action before.
I would question btw the idea that Gaza is running out of fuel. The people maybe, but not Hamas it seems, who seem perfectly able to carry on firing rockets.
some more detail, this time from jerusalem post
https:/
"The unfortunate conclusion is that the PA and Israel knowingly contributed to bolstering Hamas in Gaza. Israel’s failure, therefore, lies not only in poor intelligence and military preparedness, but also in negligence in tracing where and how the funding was used. "
the reason israel have been doing this is entirely political and with the intention of setting palestinian groups against each other. journalists in israel have warned about this for years and were ignored by the government.
One last thing on the israeli support for hamas lasting years which everyone wants to ignore
baroness warsi on question time last night quoted this from benjamin netanyahu's meeting with likud in march 2019
“Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas. This is part of our strategy"
this is from an investigation by the israeli paper haaretz
it is beyond doubt that israel has supported hamas politically and financially for a very long time and that they did this for short-term political gain against fatah. they were willing to accept occasional rocket attacks and mini wars and did not anticipate that hamas could launch an attack like oct 7 without them noticing
they have blood on their hands. they share in the responsibility for this. if you prop up terrorists then you are culpable in part for what those terrorists do with that support.
"they were willing to accept occasional rocket attacks and mini wars "
You have already had it explained to you that Israel has NOT tolerated these attacks where they have got out of hand. You can't have it both ways: accuse Israel of financing Hamas (which is ridiculous) and also criticise them for figgting rhem, which is what you are effectivly doing. Does anyone believe the figures for dead children coming from the Hamas government (I notice the BBC is now using the word "Hamas" when it quotes these).
Because I don't.
"You can't have it both ways: accuse Israel of financing Hamas (which is ridiculous) and also criticise them for figgting rhem, which is what you are effectivly doing. "
why not? it's an incoherent thing to do. they funded hamas for political gain and fought ineffectual wars with them for political gain. neither measure was interested in actually doing anything about the threat from hamas.
and it is not ridiculous to say that israel has supported hamas. i have provided you with research by an expert on hamas finances and the words of PM netanyahu itself. they did it.
you are far from being a foolish man ichkeria... look at it objectively.
Did anyone see the report on one of the news programs yesterday where one of Hamas's leaders in different country was being interviewed and he said the raids were a military operation targeting Israeli forces. Then he went on to say that Israel bombing innocent civillians was wrong. The reporter then went on to ask him if the killing of people in Israel in their sleep and at a music festival was right and the Hamas one said he was finishing the interview, took his microphone of and walked out.
you were saying it was all rubbish the other day toratoratora
and by "originally" you mean as recently as 2019. the point is that ordinary israelis have been killed/raped/kidnapped/tortured/mutilated by a hideous enemy which was substantially made by their own government. israelis themselves are blameless but that government should be treated as a party to what happened on oct 7th and held accountable for the genocide they are currently unleashing on ordinary gazans
Israel officially allied with what became Hamas in the 1980s. It is not unusual for these and subsequent repprochements to take place for political reasons. But as Tora says, it doesn't alter what is happening now. I have little time for Netanyahu: he is a corrupt politician who has grossly mishandled Israel approach over the years: turning a blind eye to or encouraging settlers and almost certainly overseeing a monumental security lapse leadibng to the Oct 7 massacre. But you can't argue with the basic fact that Hamas is the ruthless terrorist tool of an exis of evil and as such must be rooted out and destroyed. The incidental killing of innocent Palestinians is to be deplored, but we also know that Hamas is complicit in that and is almost certainly exaggerating it cynically.
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