What Are Ordinary Gazans Supposed To Do?

[Untitled]

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/gaza-teenager-sees-parents-siblings-killed-after-seeking-safety-south-2023-10-23/
 

the israeli military has instructed families in gaza city to go south to avoid the bombardment... this family did as they were told and according to this report 13 of them were killed anyway because an airstrike hit their shelter... the young girl being interviewed says she is the only one left.

what are ordinary gazans supposed to do?

[Untitled]

i don't think we disagree on much ickheria... the only point of disagreement is that i do not think the killing of gazan civilians is incidental.

[ToraToraTora]

untitled: "the point is that ordinary israelis have been killed/raped/kidnapped/tortured/mutilated by a hideous enemy which was substantially made by their own government." - when a dog goes bad you have to put it down.

[Untitled]

yeah but you don't kill all other dogs in the neighbourhood do you... you also carry some responsibility if you trained the dog to do bad things for years 

[naomi24]

Untitled, continuing to repeat your argument ad infinitum, doesn't help in the current situation.  Yes, people are being killed - although like Ichkeria I question the accuracy of the numbers - but that's war and on this occasion it's one instigated by Hamas. 

 

The bottom line here is Hamas and every other Islamic faction like them, despite your support, would have no hesitation is separating your head from your shoulders and neither would their many supporters among what you call 'ordinary' Palestinians.  That is the situation so the question that you and all those people wringing hands and marching in support of Palestine should now be asking is 'Would the world benefit from the establishment of an Islamic state in place of Israel?'  If your answer to that is 'Yes' carry on as you are and watch the world reap the unthinkable consequences.  Should, however. common sense prevail you will know that no one in their right mind would want that. 

 

Despite the obvious complexities of the situation, the choice as I see it for the by-stander now is very simple.  Either you back Israel and retain the only real democratic state in the Middle East, or you back the Palestinian cause - and by extension, albeit unwittingly, Hamas - and all the misery that would result from a Palestinian victory.  For me it's a no-brainer.  The prospect of Israel's demise frightens the hell out of me.

[Untitled]

"despite your support"

i do not support hamas or any other jihadist organisation 

 

"Either you back Israel and retain the only real democratic state in the Middle East, or you back the Palestinian cause - and by extension, albeit unwittingly, Hamas - and all the misery that would result from a Palestinian victory."

hamas are not the only group who advocate for the palestinians. fatah does as well and they are much bigger and are social democratic marxists... i think your dichotomy is false..

i see the situation differently... you either believe that waging genocide is an acceptable means of retaliation and agree with civilians being killed or you decry that as deplorable and agree with the principles of warfare laid out in the geneva convention... if you are comfortable with the kind of war israel is engaging in gaza then you're willing to make yourself comfortable with some truly evil things and you don't need to do that. 

[naomi24]

You're still avoiding addressing the outcome should Israel fall.

[Ellipsis]

There are more than two sides to this.

Also, it's possible to defend a country without inflicting war crimes on innocent people, especially children and babies ... 

[naomi24]

There are always casualties of war.  

[Hazi-Hammenuhoth]

What were German civilians supposed to do in World War Two?

[Ellipsis]

https://www.redcross.org.uk/about-us/what-we-do/protecting-people-in-armed-conflict/geneva-conventions

Geneva Conventions

The four Geneva Conventions, agreed by every country, set out how soldiers and civilians should be treated in war.

What are the four Geneva Conventions?

1) Protects the sick, wounded, medical and religious personnel during conflict.
2) Care for the wounded, sick and shipwrecked during war at sea.
3) Treat prisoners of war with humanity.
4) Protect all civilians, including those in occupied territory.

[naomi24]

^Another one avoiding reality.

[Untitled]

"You're still avoiding addressing the outcome should Israel fall."

Israel isn't going anywhere - it has nukes 

it would continue to exist if it was restored to its 1949 borders

[Untitled]

the geneva conventions were written by people with a lot of war experience

[royfromaus]

Do Palastinians stick to the Geneva conventions?

[royfromaus]

e^

Just in case the G nazis are about.

 

[Untitled]

Hamas do not no

[Ellipsis]

Which Palestinians?

[naomi24]

Untitled, You're still avoiding the fundamental question.  Why is that?

[Untitled]

which question do you think i am avoiding? 

[naomi24]

I'll make it easy.  Who do you want to win this war?