Muslims

[BIG DAD]

I am gonna have a rant here. Is any one else p1ssed off with the way its going with the Muslims at the moment, they are up in arms about what the pope said, although he seems to be right(churches being burnt and nuns being killed), and they always seem to be protesting about something, am I missing something here, is it just the press highlighting it or are they really just violent?(sorry if i offend anyone but i just dont get it)

[Lonnie]

Tut tut BIG DAD, didn't you know its a religion of peace?

[Kingsway]

It is quite straightforward really, but requires some concentration to understand. It is founded in the Islamic idea that God is so transcendent that he cannot be seen in terms of human reason - God is entirely remote from our rational categories. A Muslim must believe this and fight. - the Koran demands it in the Sword Verse from Chapter 9 "So when the sacred months have passed away, Then slay the idolaters wherever you find them. And take them captive and besiege them, and lie in wait for them in every ambush". The idolaters are, of course, Christians - us. So there you have it.

[johnizere]

www.Pedestrian Infidel: Axis of Islam: Verses of Hate
type that in search....interesting reading.

[BIG DAD]

still don't understand, I consider myself a rational person and find it hard to believe in god as there is as I know it no proof he exists/existed(again sorry if I offend), but these people believe if someone doesn�t believe in god/Islam they must be slain/slayed.?

[dayoff]

has anyone seen a head line muslims are quite happy

[jno]

as I said on another post round here somewhere, Muslims don't take kindly to being lectured on their wickedness by a former member of the Hitler Youth. Would you?

[neenynanu]

The Pope is not an innocent bystander - if he had quoted Hitler to a group of Jewish people the reaction would have been exactly the same, but seen as justified.

Also the thing about the nun being murdered is just speculation that it's to do with that. People get murdered all the time, it's just the press making the link.

I think if people want to decide for themselves if Islam is a nasty religion they should read the whole Qur'an, not just whatever verses they can find online. The Old Testament has plenty of stuff which is far more violent in it than anything in Islam - Deuteronomy for example actively endorses genocide.

I guess my words are wasted here though, I'm probably the only person posting on this board who has actually read both books and not just online exerpts and it sounds like everyone's minds are made up. Just remember though, people don't take the KKK as an example of Christians do they? Or the IRA as an example of all Irish people? People consistenly take a small portion of Islamic extremists as indicative of the whole where they don't with other religions/communities and it's not fair and completely contradictory to the hundreds of great, friendly Muslim people I know from my home town.

[neenynanu]

PS: Kingsway - "us"? Who is 'us'? Because I am white and British am I a Christian? So when the IRA were attacking the country in the 80s, who were 'us' then? Protestants?

There is no us and them.... just some crazed idiots who will start wars to promote their own agendas and blame their religions ("we" - Christians - have spent most of the last Millenia doing exactly the same thing whilst the Muslims busied themselves with Algebra and translating ancient philosophy).

[admarlow]

neenynanu - nobody is saying that they are all terrorists of represent the whole faith but everyone is stick to the back teeth about hearing them complain about everything, maybe the western world is just too ''offensive for them?''. And as for islam not being a violent religion, well like someone else said the other day - QED

[sp1814]

admarlow - but why don't the papers print the views of ordinary Muslims on the streets? Of Muslim parents who are tired of being tarred with the same brush?

Because it doesn't make good headlines.

neenynanu makes a good point about the Ku Klux Klan - they went around for decades lynching black people, but they didn't represent al Christians in the Deep South.

[flubber]

Well I have read the Qur'an and enjoyed doing so because it was written in a much easier way to understand than the bible. Most Muslims I have met are nice rather peace loving people and it's sad that the few decide all infidels must obey their religion or perish because it puts the slur on all muslims. As has been stated, there are parts in the bible that are far worse. I do agree that the minority of muslims who are shout, moan, complain, really should shut up. How would they like it if we became terrorists and said "obey our bible and religion or we will kill you all" - they simply take advantage of free speech to incite hatred.

[keyvan]

neenynanu, your words are not wasted here and it's always good to hear from someone who looks at things from both perspectives instead of cherry picking extracts from a book online and make that a basis for an argument.

[admarlow]

I think its not the actual words written but how people choose to interpret them that is the problem

[Kingsway]

Islam = surrender to God - "There is no God but God. Allah is his name. Muhammad is his prophet". The Islamists Council issued the following Statement of Intent yesterday "We tell the Worshippers of the Cross (us) that you and the West will be defeated. May God enable us to slit your throats and make your money and descendants the bounty of the mujahidin".

[neenynanu]

Yes and Hitler said: "This Jewish contamination will not subside, this poisoning of the nation will not end, until the carrier himself, the Jew, has been banished from our midst." Is that indicative of the views of all Germans? No. Billions of Muslims worldwide and you quote one group of nutters.

There are planty of groups of nutters who aren't Muslim - i would wager there are equal numbers of nutters of all types of religion and skin colour. Example - the BNP. Pure, home grown nutters - recently had a massive rift in the party because they couldn't agree if they took over the country whether they would throw out the Belgians or not. Islamic fanaticism is blown out of proportion by the media.

Islam does mean submission to god, but the true meaning of a Jihad is a person's struggle to align their deeds with the will of God and is meant to be a spiritual quest.

[admarlow]

How many people have the BNP blown up?

[suffragette]

I do wish the Muslim community would show as much interest and concern about the genocide of black Muslims by Arab Muslims in Darfur, but apparently the World community of Muslims are more concerned with misrepresenting the Pope's words than the widescale massacre, rape and enslavement of Muslims by Muslims. It's hypocrisy!!

[neenynanu]

I'm sorry if I'm going off on one here but Suffragette, I would imagine you don't have many Muslim friends? Sorry if I'm wrong. Then on what basis can you say what the Islamic community (itself a falsehood - how can you describe people from all walks of life, all over the world, different sections etc, as a community?) thinks? Just because the press don't report it? I have lots of Islamic friends who think what is happening there is terrible, and give to the same relief organisations I do to try to make some difference to the terribe suffering which is happening there.

And with the BNP - point taken. I was just trying to make the point that there are plenty of nutters out there, plenty of whom are not Muslim.

[keyvan]

"How many people have the BNP blown up? "

What kind of an argument is that? That is by no means a justification to uphold the views on BNP on certain issues.

[admarlow]

try reading the thread befor you start typing next time, I was refering to the comparison of the two groups and their labeling as nutters when they are both nutters but to very different degrees