Nigel Hastilow

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles /news/news.html?in_article_id=491643&in_page_i d=1770

Why when Conservatives step out of line or are involved in some scandal, they are immediatly sacked or banished to the back benches. They are not slow to get rid of their leaders if the need arises also. Yet the same doesn't apply in the Labour Party?

Typical examples of Labour's support for their lame ducks, their sexual indiscretions and their dodgy deaings are, the continued support for Ian Blair, Tony Blairs support for David Blunkett, the Keith Vaz affair, and the ultimate crime of all, their support for their leader at the time, Tony Blair.

[sp1814]

Actually...how come the PC brigade are getting it in the neck for this one?

This is a Conservative Party issue.

Surely PC isn't an issue over there...it's just us loony lefties that's responsible for PC???

C'mon...let's see ya bat that one back.

Seriously...this is funnier than a whole series of Blackadder.

Oh, and don't tell me that the PC brigade will have us all call it 'Afro-CaribbeanAdder'.

That would be cheap.

[sp1814]

Dassie

You know your point about the TV news right? Well, would you also say...God, I don't know how to put this without sounding like some of the more rabid posts here...

...but you know that almost every story that's ever been publish/broadcast about paedophiles over the past ten years...have featured perpetrators who are white men?

Well, with that in mind, do you also view white men as being a scourge on society?

Let me just say that I don't in any way support the view that all white men are dodgy, but I could infer that from watchin the news...Dassie et al - do you infer that meaning?

[jno]

I guess they're the ones who would never have voted for him anyway, sp1814; it's not unknown for MPs to ignore minority constituents. Odd that it should be known as the Black Country, of course.

But the answer, I think, is that Tories are ditched for political reasons rather than personal ones: Hastilow's views would have made him a constant target for accusations that the Tory party is institutionally racist. (If I'd been a Labour MP I would much have preferred him to remain as candidate.)

[Kromovaracun]

I think it's also important to remember that the media has an irritating tendency toward sensationalism. Some far more than others, mind, but certainly several of the more widely read newspapers.

Note that I'm not saying we shouldn't listen to the press - far from it - but it's always healthy to take some of it with a pinch of salt.

[jno]

incidentally, sp1814, this has to be for you

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/70785 81.stm

sorry for hijack, oldgit

[Dassie]

sp.....who mentioned "White" v "Black" ????? Don't be racist here ! We're talking about all immigrants into the UK whatever colour. And of course crime existed pre early immigration days......I'm not saying it didn't..... but it's a darn sight worse nowadays especially with Muslim extremists

[Kromovaracun]

Not really. Extremists are certainly very vocal and consistantly appear in newspapers due to the dread they rouse but crime isn't up as drastically as everyone says it is (and if it has gone up, I can't see any evidence directly linking it to immigration).

[Dassie]

Krom........no evidence that crime isn't up due to immigration?? Take a look at the prison population of today. If Enoch Powell's suggestion had been followed, then it follows that the surnames of the inmates would solely be Smith, Jones, Brown etc and no non-British names as is now the case!

[sp1814]

Dassie

Oh c'mon...do you really think that Powell was predicting the expanded Europe when he spoke in...what was it...1971?

No - most immagratophobes will start with the blacks, work their way over to the Muslims by way of the Poles and then finally end up with the Romanians.

Those who are honest will, anyway.

I have to say - I totally admire the good old fashioned racists...you know...the ones who were honestly bigoted.

You knew where you stood with them.

It's like the difference between Boyzone and Westlife.

(Anyone under 28 will know what I mean by that).

[Dassie]

sp......you admire the good old fashioned racists do you?....that says something...... but totally irrelevant to those who worry, like myself, at the mass immigration from all walks of life into the UK from wherever they come.

That's not being racist, but concerned for the future.

[ruby27]

Dassie

I think its the difficulty understanding what are the concerns for the future.

If it is that Muslim's will overwhelm the non Muslim population of Britain in the foreseeable future, this is statistically not possible. People have demonstrated that on AB on numerous occasions. Those who will not accept these objective facts, are being willfully ignorant.

However the influx of immigrants will change and shape the structure of British society. There will be changes in wealth distribution, with some accruing wealth, some being less wealthy. Norms and values now held dear, in a hundred years may be redundant or held in ridicule. Wow, guess what, that's what society has always been like. If you were to be back to 1907, there would be differences of class, gender and what was acceptable behaviour towards children, that you might hanker for (AOG) certainly does, but I think - fantastic that's no longer OK we dont behave like that any more, progress has been made.
Thank god for the labour movement, the feminist movement, the PC brigade etc all who have contributed to helping Britain be the fab place it is. Oh apart from the knife wielding murders who inhabit every street corner.

[sp1814]

<brief thread hijack>

jno - thank you for the link, but I've decided that I'm fed up with Kylie now.

Rubbish new single, average new album and we're about to be deluged with Kylie-related telly promotions over the next two months.

I'm leaving Kylie alone and instead will concentrate on Roisin Murphy and Robin...the future of quality disco.

Anyway, back to the thread...Dassie - the world of Enoch Powell was a million light years away from the world of now. What many people don't understand is that the immigrants who came to this country in the 50s were trying to integrate...check out those old newsreels of West Indians arriving in the early sixties. They dressed like Brits, attempted to talk like Brits, went to church every Sunday, had tea parties (I know, I was dragged along to them by my mum and her coiterie of chattering mates).

To link what he said back then to the Britain of today is specious reasoning.

If Hastilow wanted to enter the immigration debate, he should've questioned the expansion of the 'new Europe'. He should've raised questions on current Government policies towards integration and the fight against Muslim extremism.

I've got an average secondary school education, and if I can see where he went wrong, I'm surprised that more people on this thread can't.

I wouldn't want to be represented by an MP who displays the intellect of...of...Kerry Katona.

[Kromovaracun]

I think it should also be pointed out that there's always been immigration to the UK. And there's also always been people moaning about them.

In the C19 and early C20 - people had exactly the same fear of the Irish. A bit later this also applied to Jews. A bit later people were moaning about Caribbeans, then Indians/Pakistanis, and then (now) Poles/Romanians. I'm sure in doing this off the top of my head I've probably missed a few groups too. Immigration has always been, and likely always will be, a fundamental part of British social and economic history.

[jake-the-peg]

Actually I am supporting the child of a refugee in my house but she telds to wield a chainsaw more often than a knife.

I call her my wife

[sp1814]

It gets funnier.

According to the papers this moring (it was either the Express or Mail), Conservative Central Office offered to save Hastilow if he "publicly admitted he was stupid".

...which leaves me in the uncomfortable position of agreeing with the Tory party chairman about something.

Weird.

[sp1814]

Raggy

I think (warning - opinion coming up) that 7/7 was more a product of our involvement the war in Iraq and the radicalisation of Muslim youths.

If Powell had said "We need to curb immigration and readdress our reliance on OPEC-sourced forms of energy whilst simultaneously ensuring that we stamp down on the rise of right wing 70's political movements"...then I think you'd have a point.

[Dassie]

Agreed, we're talking about Enoch's ideas 40 yrs ago which are no longer relevant to today's picture, expanded Europe etc ....but put this aside for a moment.
What I am saying is, had those ideas been implemented at the time, this Country would not be plagued by today's current problems with immigration and discussions on what to do to curb it.
Enoch said it would cause problems and he was right - simple fact.

Oh and ruby....."helping Britain be the fab place it is" ??? Really??..., and where else in the world have you lived to be able to draw this comparison?

[jake-the-peg]

The ratio of people of working age to people over 65 will fall from 3.7:1 to 2.1:1 in 2040 without immigration.

Do tell me how this country will function when that happens

What will happen to the economy with so few working?
How will you get to see a doctor? How will you get a plumber?

I know there are people here that don't care because they think they won't be here ( the usual self centered "patriots") but the inescapable fact is that we need immigration.

[sp1814]

I can't answer for Ruby, but nearly every day I'm reminded of what a fantastic country this is, and continues to be.

We have food aplenty...none of us need worry about going without.

We have a transport system that can whisk us in comfort from one end of the country to the other.

We have great entertainment (theatre, television, galleries, museums, sport...)

We are safe...compare the number of people who have died through terrorist attacks here to say, Spain (not Muslims...ETA!!!)

We're progressive - first country in Europe to introduce Civil Partnerships. There wasn't even any real opposition to it (apart from within the pages of the Daily Mail, but you'd expect that).

We're the fourth largest economy in the world...FOURTH!!!!

London is now the world's financial capital, with more money passing through every day than the New York Stock Exchange.

We have low unemployment and low interest rates. It's been like that for yonks now (of course, that may change if the Conservatives ever got in and messed up like they did last time).

We have world class designers and artists (Damien, Stella, Alexander, Vivienne etc).

Our music scene is easily the most vibrant in the world.

Is it me, or have we suddenly become complacent about all the great things around us???

There's too much litter in London though, I'll give you that.