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maggie
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just watching a britain...a modern history on bbc2 its mainly about maggie thatcher she actually caused anarchy on the streets of britain,do you think she was a heroine for britain or a horror?my opinion is that she was the latter..............................
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hi lonnie yes maggie WILL be remembered for the miners strike,which in effect cost the uk its mining industry,but under her premiership there was record unemployment,she caused the north/south divide as her policies meant that the rich got richer and the poor got poorer under her leadership inflation hit 22% mmmm im not so sure about her place in history as 1 of the great prime ministers mate.....oh and she introduced the poll tax..not the most popular government descision i think....
>oh and she introduced the poll tax..not the most popular government descision i think....
The Poll Tax was much much fairer system of tax than what we had at the time.
At that time we had the "rates" and it was paid by householders on the value of their house. If you lived in an expensive house you paid a lot of rates, if you lived in a cheap house you paid less rates.
The problem is it took no account of how many people LIVED in the house. If one old lady lived in an expensive house she paid more than eight people living in a less expensive house.
The Poll tax was based on the INDIVIDUAL PERSON paying the tax, not the value of your house. Much fairer.
Of course all those people who had never paid the poll tax before rioted on the streets and got it stopped.
So the tories cancelled the poll tax, and bought in the council tax, which was almost exactly the same as the rates so we were back where we were.
The Poll Tax was much much fairer system of tax than what we had at the time.
At that time we had the "rates" and it was paid by householders on the value of their house. If you lived in an expensive house you paid a lot of rates, if you lived in a cheap house you paid less rates.
The problem is it took no account of how many people LIVED in the house. If one old lady lived in an expensive house she paid more than eight people living in a less expensive house.
The Poll tax was based on the INDIVIDUAL PERSON paying the tax, not the value of your house. Much fairer.
Of course all those people who had never paid the poll tax before rioted on the streets and got it stopped.
So the tories cancelled the poll tax, and bought in the council tax, which was almost exactly the same as the rates so we were back where we were.
>her policies meant that the rich got richer and the poor got poorer under her leadership
It was anounced a few months ago that under Blair / Browns Labour that the rich have got richer and the poor have got poorer, so what else is new.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7369452.st m
It was anounced a few months ago that under Blair / Browns Labour that the rich have got richer and the poor have got poorer, so what else is new.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7369452.st m
>under her leadership inflation hit 22%
It was not just the UK that had record inflation, it was all over the world at the time. It was not Maggie's fault.
Like now, oil was increasing in price rapidly pushing the price of everything up.
http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/Art icle/Living-in-the-seventies-EYRC6?OpenDocumen t
It was not just the UK that had record inflation, it was all over the world at the time. It was not Maggie's fault.
Like now, oil was increasing in price rapidly pushing the price of everything up.
http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/Art icle/Living-in-the-seventies-EYRC6?OpenDocumen t
>which in effect cost the uk its mining industry
Many of those mines would have closed anyway.
I saw on the news just a few months ago of a mine that was taken over the the "workers" to prove it could make a profit.
But they have no admitted defeat and closed the mine.
As this report below says "In the two decades since the miners' strike, 156 collieries have closed, some first merging with a nearby pit, only to eventually fall under the axe for being "uneconomic".
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3514549.stm
Many of those mines would have closed anyway.
I saw on the news just a few months ago of a mine that was taken over the the "workers" to prove it could make a profit.
But they have no admitted defeat and closed the mine.
As this report below says "In the two decades since the miners' strike, 156 collieries have closed, some first merging with a nearby pit, only to eventually fall under the axe for being "uneconomic".
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3514549.stm
It was not all roses before Thatcher came into power.
In 1975, when Labour were in power, inflation reached 26.9% and in the late 70s unemployment was very high.
Then in the winter of 78 / 79, with Labour still in power, we had the so-called Winter of Discontent.
Strikes, rubbish poling up on the streets, hospitals being picketed so only emergencies were admitted and much more.
More here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_of_Discont ent
People talk as though Britain was some sort of Nirvarna before Thatcher came to power and she ruined it.
Far from it, this country was a mess, the poor man of Europe and getting worse.
Thatcher turned that round and any success we have today is down to her.
In 1975, when Labour were in power, inflation reached 26.9% and in the late 70s unemployment was very high.
Then in the winter of 78 / 79, with Labour still in power, we had the so-called Winter of Discontent.
Strikes, rubbish poling up on the streets, hospitals being picketed so only emergencies were admitted and much more.
More here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_of_Discont ent
People talk as though Britain was some sort of Nirvarna before Thatcher came to power and she ruined it.
Far from it, this country was a mess, the poor man of Europe and getting worse.
Thatcher turned that round and any success we have today is down to her.
is that your rant over vhg?at the end of the day under her premiership millions of people wer forced to live in poverty because of her policies,never before have we seen such rioting and civil unrest on our streets.even her own party ousted her.that was the best thing the tory party has ever done for this country the fact of the matter is that she was a union basher,she crushed the ordinary working man and woman and then squeezed them even harder.not a very nice woman actually......by the way vhg are you a tory voter by any chance?
cost the uk its mining industry,
Let's be clear on something.
The UK mining industry was going down the tubes. Why? Because in a modern, global, economy it was actually cheaper in this country to import coal than to dig for it. Of course, the unions stalled its decline by squeezing money out of the government that it couldn't afford. Thatcher ended that, and was the only person around who had the guts to do so.
at the end of the day under her premiership millions of people wer forced to live in poverty because of her policies
Actually there's a wide consensus that the long-term increase in employment and prosperity we've enjoyed since the late 80s/mid-90s (though dipping slightly now) can be directly attributed to the reforms of the Thatcher govt.
never before have we seen such rioting and civil unrest on our streets.
Yeah. Good thing she ended it, really.
she was a union basher,
The Unions had been actively screwing the country over throughout the 70s. Hell, the government had to use emergency powers in 1973.
she crushed the ordinary working man and woman and then squeezed them even harder
I won't deny that the poorer were worse off under Thatcher. But they weren't 'crushed'. They were paying less for things, for instance, and paying less tax (well, up until the very end). Their utilities were also no longer being throttled. They were also more able to make gains in the stock market, which they were seldom involved with before.
Let's be clear on something.
The UK mining industry was going down the tubes. Why? Because in a modern, global, economy it was actually cheaper in this country to import coal than to dig for it. Of course, the unions stalled its decline by squeezing money out of the government that it couldn't afford. Thatcher ended that, and was the only person around who had the guts to do so.
at the end of the day under her premiership millions of people wer forced to live in poverty because of her policies
Actually there's a wide consensus that the long-term increase in employment and prosperity we've enjoyed since the late 80s/mid-90s (though dipping slightly now) can be directly attributed to the reforms of the Thatcher govt.
never before have we seen such rioting and civil unrest on our streets.
Yeah. Good thing she ended it, really.
she was a union basher,
The Unions had been actively screwing the country over throughout the 70s. Hell, the government had to use emergency powers in 1973.
she crushed the ordinary working man and woman and then squeezed them even harder
I won't deny that the poorer were worse off under Thatcher. But they weren't 'crushed'. They were paying less for things, for instance, and paying less tax (well, up until the very end). Their utilities were also no longer being throttled. They were also more able to make gains in the stock market, which they were seldom involved with before.
I hate the cow with a vengeance and hope she has a long lingering death when it comes. That isn't just vindictiveness - thanks to NHS cuts brought about by her and her cronies, my mum couldn't get a bed when she was seriously ill - I had to watch her deteriorate slowly for hours on a trolley, only for her to die a day later. I am not a violent man but if I ever saw her in the street, I'd gladly go to prison for doing her in.
NHS Cuts
Actually, if you look at the figures, NHS spending didn't actually decline. It's actually risen pretty much continuously since the 40s. In 1987, for instance, an additional �101 million was dumped in.
The problem the Conservative govt. started for the NHS wasn't funding - they over-centralised it and introduced market-based management that didn't belong there.
I'm not saying Thatcher's record on healthcare was spotless - it certainly wasn't. I'm just trying to show she didn't actually make the cuts you think she did.
Actually, if you look at the figures, NHS spending didn't actually decline. It's actually risen pretty much continuously since the 40s. In 1987, for instance, an additional �101 million was dumped in.
The problem the Conservative govt. started for the NHS wasn't funding - they over-centralised it and introduced market-based management that didn't belong there.
I'm not saying Thatcher's record on healthcare was spotless - it certainly wasn't. I'm just trying to show she didn't actually make the cuts you think she did.
One little correction, sorry:
NHS spending as a % of GDP did decline very slightly between 1982 and 1989. This however is not the same as a cut in spending, as in these years GDP grew dramatically. Therefore the % that this bloc of spending made up of it declined a little bit (but the fact it declined only very slightly could actually indicate an increase).
NHS spending as a % of GDP did decline very slightly between 1982 and 1989. This however is not the same as a cut in spending, as in these years GDP grew dramatically. Therefore the % that this bloc of spending made up of it declined a little bit (but the fact it declined only very slightly could actually indicate an increase).
When it comes to Thatcher you will either view her with attitudes or platitudes based upon where you live. In the South they like her in the North we hate her and in the midlands somewhere inbetween as a rough generalisation.
Coal was heavily subsidised throughout the world (here less so) Germany and Australia especially, that was why it was cheaper. Coal was'nt subsidised anywhere near as much as nuclear power if it were we'd still have mines. The Tories played the environment card and started "The Dash For Gas" and like performing seals the greenies clapped (a bad policy) but she imported nuclear waste from across the world cos it was good business, she played the liberals at their own game with care in the community so she could close the hospitals, she privatised the utilities, she privatised the buses and now we're supposed to subsidise them (again) when it's a private industry and she destroyed the NHS. Need I go on? Remember Great Britain PLC? Who can forget Major's "yes it hurt, yes it worked" slogan?
Unlike some I have'nt forgotten and unlike others I have'nt forgiven the Tories.
Coal was heavily subsidised throughout the world (here less so) Germany and Australia especially, that was why it was cheaper. Coal was'nt subsidised anywhere near as much as nuclear power if it were we'd still have mines. The Tories played the environment card and started "The Dash For Gas" and like performing seals the greenies clapped (a bad policy) but she imported nuclear waste from across the world cos it was good business, she played the liberals at their own game with care in the community so she could close the hospitals, she privatised the utilities, she privatised the buses and now we're supposed to subsidise them (again) when it's a private industry and she destroyed the NHS. Need I go on? Remember Great Britain PLC? Who can forget Major's "yes it hurt, yes it worked" slogan?
Unlike some I have'nt forgotten and unlike others I have'nt forgiven the Tories.
So you're saying the government should have made coal cheaper by spending more money on it?
The reason coal was cheaper was because abroad people didn't need to dig so deep. So companies naturally opted for imports, causing mining to downturn. And the unions to have a hissy fit and irreparably damage their industry in the process.
Remember - it wasn't Thatcher that killed corporatism. It was Labour and the Unions. She just dealt the coup de grace.
now we're supposed to subsidise them (again)
Eh?
New Labour have been fond of this kind of policy but that's not the same as having to. That's just NL...
I sincerely doubt Thatcher 'imported nuclear waste'. That's just stupid.
The reason coal was cheaper was because abroad people didn't need to dig so deep. So companies naturally opted for imports, causing mining to downturn. And the unions to have a hissy fit and irreparably damage their industry in the process.
Remember - it wasn't Thatcher that killed corporatism. It was Labour and the Unions. She just dealt the coup de grace.
now we're supposed to subsidise them (again)
Eh?
New Labour have been fond of this kind of policy but that's not the same as having to. That's just NL...
I sincerely doubt Thatcher 'imported nuclear waste'. That's just stupid.
Many 'poor' people made a very big profit because Thatcher enabled them to get on the housing ladder by buying their council houses with huge discounts.
I thought the poll tax was the fairest tax of all.
The unions had made this country a laughing stock, striking over paltry things including being supplied with cheaper tea bags to drink in their breaks. Our reputation worldwide as a workforce was dreadful.
During Thatcher's time there was a world wide recession - all western countries were affected badly, not just the UK. No PM could have stopped it.
The media today is full of stories of the NHS letting people down, giving poor care, refusing life saving treatment, dirty wards...
She didn't give in to the IRA.
I am not a great fan of any particular PM or political party but recognise the job to be done is very difficult.
She did some good things - but should never have sold off the council houses. Of course, those who did profit from it won't agree with me.
I thought the poll tax was the fairest tax of all.
The unions had made this country a laughing stock, striking over paltry things including being supplied with cheaper tea bags to drink in their breaks. Our reputation worldwide as a workforce was dreadful.
During Thatcher's time there was a world wide recession - all western countries were affected badly, not just the UK. No PM could have stopped it.
The media today is full of stories of the NHS letting people down, giving poor care, refusing life saving treatment, dirty wards...
She didn't give in to the IRA.
I am not a great fan of any particular PM or political party but recognise the job to be done is very difficult.
She did some good things - but should never have sold off the council houses. Of course, those who did profit from it won't agree with me.
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