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JNO i worked in covent garden during 7/7 eyc and a friend of mine was on one of the picadilly trains (she is ok) and people were VERY tense after what happened, for a week or 2 people stopped riding on the front carrage.
No one is saying that there shouldn't be an investigation and that these isn't a lot to be learned from the mistakes that day but some people talk about the incident like the officers intentially murdered the bloke, like they had something against him or something.
No one is saying that there shouldn't be an investigation and that these isn't a lot to be learned from the mistakes that day but some people talk about the incident like the officers intentially murdered the bloke, like they had something against him or something.
they did have something against him, admarlow - they thought he was a terrorist - and they meant to kill him. De Menezes himself was in no way at fault. He'd done nothing whatever wrong. (Not even wearing a 'bomber jacket'.) The police on the other hand did everything wrong (subect to what may come out of this enquiry), before and after, from screwed-up intelligence to lying to the press. This cannot be dismissed as an accident.
Though it may be.
Though it may be.
I'm afraid the fact that the "police officers didn't intentially murder the bloke, like they had something against him or something", admarlow, does not stop JCdM being dead. I'm sure he takes great solace in the fact that he was the first civilian casualty in the War against Terror.
Inconvenient as it may be, and I hold the Police in very high regard, usually, there is a case to answer here.........
Inconvenient as it may be, and I hold the Police in very high regard, usually, there is a case to answer here.........
Actually monkeyeyes, it is as simple as that.
I'm staggered at the amount of people on this thread who want to see individual policemen vilified and lose their careers for acting the way they did - the people that want to see this are utter cretins.
OK, it is tragic that this guy is dead, and mistakes were clearly made, but the mistakes need to be read in conjunction with the pressure the police were under at the time - bombs were going off and this guy, wrongly as it transpired, was a target.
Somebody has ridiculously suggested on this thread how people would feel if it was a relative that was killed - this is the argument of a simpleton - of course nobody would like a relative to be killed in this manner, but it is important to be subjective: if the situation arose again, I would like the person, if there was a perceived clear and present danger, to be killed again - one life sacrificed to save many lives.
I'm staggered at the amount of people on this thread who want to see individual policemen vilified and lose their careers for acting the way they did - the people that want to see this are utter cretins.
OK, it is tragic that this guy is dead, and mistakes were clearly made, but the mistakes need to be read in conjunction with the pressure the police were under at the time - bombs were going off and this guy, wrongly as it transpired, was a target.
Somebody has ridiculously suggested on this thread how people would feel if it was a relative that was killed - this is the argument of a simpleton - of course nobody would like a relative to be killed in this manner, but it is important to be subjective: if the situation arose again, I would like the person, if there was a perceived clear and present danger, to be killed again - one life sacrificed to save many lives.
Plus if the Brazilian police force are anything to go by, Rio in particular with 900 plus people shot and killed in 2007, give me the good old British Bobby any day of the week.
The family of the deceased, whilst I have no doubt they are very sad for the loss of their relative, are seeing dollar signs.
This is a comensation issue.
The family of the deceased, whilst I have no doubt they are very sad for the loss of their relative, are seeing dollar signs.
This is a comensation issue.
The British Bobby is the British Bobby because we insist on inquiries like this.
What you want is the Brazilian version - the one who doesn't face public inquiries if he shoots someone for a higher cause (be it drugs, or terrorism).
Removing a process whereby they're held accountable for shootings would lead to the British Bobby shooting more and more people.
What you want is the Brazilian version - the one who doesn't face public inquiries if he shoots someone for a higher cause (be it drugs, or terrorism).
Removing a process whereby they're held accountable for shootings would lead to the British Bobby shooting more and more people.
You are analysing this in the comfy world of hindsight. Was it reasonably forseeable that this guy was wrongly targeted - possibly - but in a situation as highly charged as the officers found themselves in it is, I would suggest, impossible to use the forseeability argument.
Although I do agree with you to a degree, Re: the accountability, I do not like the way this accountability is turning in to a witch hunt. You only have to look at some of the posts on this thread to see that a witch hunt is exactly what some people want to see.
Vic - I have absolutely no idea. And neither does anybody on this thread, and yet despite this, people want to see the policemen involved at best sacked, at worst imprisoned. That. Is. Wrong.
Although I do agree with you to a degree, Re: the accountability, I do not like the way this accountability is turning in to a witch hunt. You only have to look at some of the posts on this thread to see that a witch hunt is exactly what some people want to see.
Vic - I have absolutely no idea. And neither does anybody on this thread, and yet despite this, people want to see the policemen involved at best sacked, at worst imprisoned. That. Is. Wrong.
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The police screwed up in their job and an innocent man died. That is wrong. The situation was only highly charged because their incompetence made it so. De Menezes had no idea it was highly charged, because he hadn't done anything.
Suppose they'd tried to shoot him in the legs to stop him allegedly leaping over Tube barriers, missed and hit him in the head. That would have been a genuine accident and an accidental death verdict would be appropriate. But that's not what happened.
Suppose they'd tried to shoot him in the legs to stop him allegedly leaping over Tube barriers, missed and hit him in the head. That would have been a genuine accident and an accidental death verdict would be appropriate. But that's not what happened.
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I have absolutely no idea. And neither does anybody on this thread, and yet despite this, people want to see the policemen involved at best sacked, at worst imprisoned. That. Is. Wrong.
So you open your 'question' with: Here's hoping for an accidental death verdict! , but then admit: I have absolutely no idea. And neither does anybody on this thread
Could you also tell me who on this thread want to see the policemen involved at best sacked, at worst imprisoned.
So you open your 'question' with: Here's hoping for an accidental death verdict! , but then admit: I have absolutely no idea. And neither does anybody on this thread
Could you also tell me who on this thread want to see the policemen involved at best sacked, at worst imprisoned.
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A man is dead.
A man who posed no threat.
A man who, if the officers concerned had done their job properly, would have been perceived to have posed no threat.
Yes, all of the security services were in a heightened state of agitation at this time, however, to assume that the police officers who shot JCdM were incapable of looking at him and making a rational decision of doing anything other than shooting him smacks of the 'just following orders' defence so reviled in other circumstances.........
JCdM had been in plain sight since he left the block of flats and the dithering around of the highr-ranking officers conspired to allow him to get all the way onto the tube-train. I believe that the officers who fired the shots were unable to receive any intel due to the lack of radio penetration in the tube network.
The onus then shifted into a group of police marksmen who having lost contact with their senior officers, looked at a denim-jacketed man and decided to shoot him in the head...............several times.
A man who posed no threat.
A man who, if the officers concerned had done their job properly, would have been perceived to have posed no threat.
Yes, all of the security services were in a heightened state of agitation at this time, however, to assume that the police officers who shot JCdM were incapable of looking at him and making a rational decision of doing anything other than shooting him smacks of the 'just following orders' defence so reviled in other circumstances.........
JCdM had been in plain sight since he left the block of flats and the dithering around of the highr-ranking officers conspired to allow him to get all the way onto the tube-train. I believe that the officers who fired the shots were unable to receive any intel due to the lack of radio penetration in the tube network.
The onus then shifted into a group of police marksmen who having lost contact with their senior officers, looked at a denim-jacketed man and decided to shoot him in the head...............several times.
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