Was England safer?

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.dailymail....oting-Canterbury.html

Was England a safer country before the huge influx of foreign nationals?

[rov1200]

I think we had similar problems when the Scots invaded England every time we had the Home International football matches. No wonder we stopped them!

[sp1814]

According to stats obtainable from http://www.parliament...ch/rp99/rp99-111.pdf, the murder rate in 1990 was 9.6 per million of the population.

In the mid sixties, after the first influx of immigrants from the West Indies, the figure fell to 6.2 per milion, rising to 14.1 per million in 1997. Don't know what the figure is now.

Hopefully the PDF file above contains all the stats you need.

[Gromit]

I think you may have asked this several dozen times already AOG. The answer is still no. No point in postingany links to crime in Victorian times because you will ignore them.

Do you never get tired of this obsession with race?

[jno]

people are no longer robbed by highwaymen when trying to ride across Hyde Park, if that's any help. But I suppose you could blame the influx of a German royal family in the 1700s for that?

[anotheoldgit]

Gromit

Just as I would ignore posted links of crime in Georgian, Tudor, Medieval or during the Roman occupation.

All very interesting I am sure, but hardly relevant.

[jackthehat]

"Just as I would ignore posted links of crime in Georgian, Tudor, Medieval or during the Roman occupation.

All very interesting I am sure, but hardly relevant. "

So exactly which 'golden period' of crimeless England ARE you harking back to, AOG ?

[sp1814]

Let's narrow down the field a bit because the question as it stands is a bit vague. Which foreign nationals are you referring to and what timeframe are you looking at?

[VHG]

>Was England a safer country before the huge influx of foreign nationals?

It was certainly safer before William invaded in 1066 and brought all his foreign pals over.

They killed most of the local rulers and put Norman rulers in their place.

Been going on ever since.

[Gromit]

It is difficult to ascertain which time frame you think was safer and when exactly you believe immigration started.

However, if you were to look at a graph of crime statistics during the 20th century, you would see crime rising from 1900 onwards, with the exception of 1914 to 1945 where the line straightens out. This would seem to indicate that the people who would normally be committing crimes were instead fighting in a foreign country.

Between 1945 and 1955, the prison population doubled. was this before your alleged huge influx of foreign nationals?

[rickycbr]

http://www.telegraph....rs-let-out-early.html

[fredpuli47]

We know the premiss upon which you ask this, AOG. (It's the same premiss upon which you almost always post). In the instant case, please tell us which period (s) you wish to compare with which. We can't help you until you do. Only then will you have the pleasure of saying that we are completely wrong !

[buildersmate]

Come on, guys, you KNOW he's not actually interested in the answers. He's merely interested in promoting his own angle on racism. Allegedly.

[sara3]

I really think the world would be a better place if you stopped reading The Daily Mail.

[Sqad]

AOG has asked a perfectly reasonable question which demands a perfectly reasonable,researched answer.

"Is there any relationship between the influx of foreign nationals and the increase in violent crime?"

Unfortunately AOG did not give a time span....so I will.....since the end of WORLD WAR 2.

[sp1814]

Well, looking at raw stats, there doesn't seem to be a correlation:

http://www.parliament...efings/snsg-04334.pdf

Page 2 in the above document shows a steady climb in the UK prison population, with significant jump in the period immediately following WWII, and then again in the mid 90s.

These jumps don't marry up to changes in immigration rates. Also, the figures aren't split by nationality, nor do are they subdivided by type (violent/non-violent) offence, so they're just a broad guide.

[anotheoldgit]

Sqad

Thank you once again Sqad, you are quite correct since the 50s.

But then they know perfectly well from what period I am talking about, they just want to jump in with their usual cries of racist.

After years of state controlled silence over immigration, now due to public pressure, we are told by our politicians that it isn't racist to discuss immigration, although they haven't yet dared go the whole hog and link the increase of violent crime on our streets with immigration.

[sp1814]

I've supplied you with links to which you can get some stats. There climb in the prison population and murder rate doesn't appear to be linked with immigration. It's been steadily climbing throughout the 20th century.

[sp1814]

By the way, isn't comparing immigration since the 50s, which saw the first wave of West Indian migrant, with a crime committed a Lithuanian in 2009 casting the net a little wide?

[saxy_jag]

"Was England a safer country before the huge influx of foreign nationals?"

You'd have to go pre-Roman and pre-Viking (maybe even further back) to establish that one.

I can trace my family back to 1460 in England - that's a direct line with no foreign marriages involved, but my DNA type is almost certainly Anglo-Saxon (ie Nordic/German). Does that make me foreign?