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Belgium bans the Burka.
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http://www.dailymail....-faces-draft-law.html
How is it that Belgium and it seems soon other European countries can ban the Burka, yet if we tried to implement this ruling in the UK, the European Court of Human Rights would soon be down on us?
How is it that Belgium and it seems soon other European countries can ban the Burka, yet if we tried to implement this ruling in the UK, the European Court of Human Rights would soon be down on us?
Answers
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Everton, Your arguments are so confused and disjointed, I don't actually think you know what you're for or against, but it's clear that you have no intention of listening or learning, so we're wasting our time discussing this with you. At the risk of employing an old cliche, there are none so blind and all that.
Everton, //if you asked them why they wear it, then that's what they'd tell you//
Just one more thought. How do you know that's what they'd tell you? When did you ever speak to these ladies to ask them why they wear it? Frankly, since they don't speak to men, or even look at men, unconnected to them, I imagine the closest you've ever come to engaging them in conversation is when you've taken a bus fare from them. You don't have a clue!
Just one more thought. How do you know that's what they'd tell you? When did you ever speak to these ladies to ask them why they wear it? Frankly, since they don't speak to men, or even look at men, unconnected to them, I imagine the closest you've ever come to engaging them in conversation is when you've taken a bus fare from them. You don't have a clue!
Without going into the rights or wrongs of wearing the burkha, the justification for this law is that no-one should go out in public with his face covered. This got me thinking: what about all those people who on occasion wander around the streets in full fancy dress costumes? Who knows what lies behind Mickey Mouse's head.
You still have not produced a shred of evidence to suggest that these women have been forced to wear the burkha or have been brain washed.
I know exactly what I'm for (free speech and free expression), I know exactly what I'm against (fascism, fundamentalism and bullying).
We both dislike the veil but espouse completely different solutions, you want criminilise women for weaing the veil, I want to talk them out of wearing it, ask yourself, which solution is the most extreme?
Whilst you're at it perhaps you can tell me how you emancipate a woman by imprisoning her and criminilising her?
I know exactly what I'm for (free speech and free expression), I know exactly what I'm against (fascism, fundamentalism and bullying).
We both dislike the veil but espouse completely different solutions, you want criminilise women for weaing the veil, I want to talk them out of wearing it, ask yourself, which solution is the most extreme?
Whilst you're at it perhaps you can tell me how you emancipate a woman by imprisoning her and criminilising her?
Everton, You're for free expression, you support a woman's 'free' choice (which as I said she wouldn't recognise if it jumped up and hit her on the head), and now suddenly you dislike the veil and want to 'talk' people out of wearing it? Goodness, that's a new twist. Well, as I suspected you clearly haven't spoken to any of these women (I have incidentally - and to many of the men, including an Imam), so perhaps you should make it your mission to target the men of Islam and talk some sense into them. Evidence? Why don't you try to change their minds about the pronouncements made in the book they live by and worship:
Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other.
....good women are obedient.
As for those from whom you fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them.
.... tell the believing women to lower their gaze and be modest, and to display of their adornment only that which is apparent, and to draw their veils over their bosoms, and not to reveal their adornment save to their own husbands.
By the way, when I travel in the Middle East, I obey the law and I respect the culture. Muslims who find the laws in the west unacceptable have a free choice to return to their own country where the laws will suit them better. And before you tell me I'm racist, I'm not. It's a simple fact of life.
Dabees, Mrs Pankhurst would be spinning in her grave.
Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other.
....good women are obedient.
As for those from whom you fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them.
.... tell the believing women to lower their gaze and be modest, and to display of their adornment only that which is apparent, and to draw their veils over their bosoms, and not to reveal their adornment save to their own husbands.
By the way, when I travel in the Middle East, I obey the law and I respect the culture. Muslims who find the laws in the west unacceptable have a free choice to return to their own country where the laws will suit them better. And before you tell me I'm racist, I'm not. It's a simple fact of life.
Dabees, Mrs Pankhurst would be spinning in her grave.
Naomi, what a completely dishonest answer.
"and now suddenly you dislike the veil and want to 'talk' people out of wearing it? Goodness, that's a new twist." a complete and total lie.
My posts from a previous thread.
27th April
I am an exponent of free speech and free expression even (especially) when I don't like it or disagree with it (see my many posts on the B.N.P and also the burkha)
28th April
Your contention is wrong.
I defend anyone's right to be different, just because I disagree with them doesn't give me the right to dictate or pontificate to them (or they me), I try to understand why certain people behave in certain ways so that I can make sense of them.
I'll give you a well worn out example, I dislike the burkha, I know exactly why I dislike the burkha, but I defend their right to wear it, because it's my problem that they do.
I could go on with more from further back, but won't.
"Muslims who find the laws in the west unacceptable have a free choice to return to their own country where the laws will suit them better. And before you tell me I'm racist, I'm not. It's a simple fact of life. "
There was no law, the law's been changed in Belgium to target them, there is no law currently in Britain.
We know that you'd support such a law, and now we know why, thankyou for offering us the posh way of saying P A K I go home.
P.S.
The last statement you made is without doubt one of the most racist statements I've ever read on this site.
P.P.S.
Pankhurst and her colleagues campaigned against bad law, they would not have supported the veil, but they would not have outlawed it either.
"and now suddenly you dislike the veil and want to 'talk' people out of wearing it? Goodness, that's a new twist." a complete and total lie.
My posts from a previous thread.
27th April
I am an exponent of free speech and free expression even (especially) when I don't like it or disagree with it (see my many posts on the B.N.P and also the burkha)
28th April
Your contention is wrong.
I defend anyone's right to be different, just because I disagree with them doesn't give me the right to dictate or pontificate to them (or they me), I try to understand why certain people behave in certain ways so that I can make sense of them.
I'll give you a well worn out example, I dislike the burkha, I know exactly why I dislike the burkha, but I defend their right to wear it, because it's my problem that they do.
I could go on with more from further back, but won't.
"Muslims who find the laws in the west unacceptable have a free choice to return to their own country where the laws will suit them better. And before you tell me I'm racist, I'm not. It's a simple fact of life. "
There was no law, the law's been changed in Belgium to target them, there is no law currently in Britain.
We know that you'd support such a law, and now we know why, thankyou for offering us the posh way of saying P A K I go home.
P.S.
The last statement you made is without doubt one of the most racist statements I've ever read on this site.
P.P.S.
Pankhurst and her colleagues campaigned against bad law, they would not have supported the veil, but they would not have outlawed it either.
Everton, oh dear, here we go again. You're floundering. I am not dishonest. You have never before, to my knowledge, said you want to talk people out of wearing the burqa so this is a new twist. Oh, and how did I know you'd eventually resort to blatantly dishonest insults? Experience!! When you're stumped for an answer personal abuse is always your first line of defence because that's the best you can do. Never mind. I'm used to it. Pathetic!
Ha ha, I'm an enemy to millions of oppressed women throughout the world according to you and I'm the one passing the insults?
Yawn.
How can I try to understand someone's actions without talking to them?
All you've demonstrated is your hatred of Islam and your dislike of religion, no surprises there then.
You propose to change the law to affect certain Muslim women, and if they don't like it then they can just go to an Islamic country, because it's our country not theirs and we can do what we like and they just have to put up with it, Eichmann couldn't have put it better himself. Be honest, that's the underlying agenda of such policies (expulsion).
Great events cast their shadows before them.
You talk about women in Saudi, and then profess to send British women to places like Saudi where we can't reach them, such emancipation.
You've answered nothing, in this thread all you've expressed is your own extremism.
Pathetic, revealing, but pathetic.
Yawn.
How can I try to understand someone's actions without talking to them?
All you've demonstrated is your hatred of Islam and your dislike of religion, no surprises there then.
You propose to change the law to affect certain Muslim women, and if they don't like it then they can just go to an Islamic country, because it's our country not theirs and we can do what we like and they just have to put up with it, Eichmann couldn't have put it better himself. Be honest, that's the underlying agenda of such policies (expulsion).
Great events cast their shadows before them.
You talk about women in Saudi, and then profess to send British women to places like Saudi where we can't reach them, such emancipation.
You've answered nothing, in this thread all you've expressed is your own extremism.
Pathetic, revealing, but pathetic.
I can't even call that a nice try, Everton. It's disgusting - but then, with you, nothing changes. I haven't suggested SENDING anyone anywhere. The implications have come from you, not me, but experience has taught me that in attempting to defend your irrationality your only recourse is to malign, so it's precisely what I expected. Isn't it odd? The moment anyone dare speak out against this injustice - and it is injustice - blinkered religious apologists like you, because they have no rational argument, immediately resort to insults by damning their opponents as racists or Nazis - and I've lost count of the number of times you've done it. You clearly have no comprehension of the meaning of either word.
I want equality for these women. Unlike yours, my sense of fairness is such that, however politically incorrect you may consider it, I refuse to condone a culture in which women are subjugated and treated as second-class citizens wo are less than men. I can't do anything about the systems in the east, but I would hope that, despite bigots like you, I still have the freedom to speak out for the justice that most of us in the west, hopefully, espouse. Physically these women are living amongst us in a 21st century world, but mentally they are trapped in an appalling philosophy emanating from the dark ages - and they are imprisoned there by the tenets of the verses in a 1500 year old book - which incidentally, I note you haven't commented on.
continued...
I want equality for these women. Unlike yours, my sense of fairness is such that, however politically incorrect you may consider it, I refuse to condone a culture in which women are subjugated and treated as second-class citizens wo are less than men. I can't do anything about the systems in the east, but I would hope that, despite bigots like you, I still have the freedom to speak out for the justice that most of us in the west, hopefully, espouse. Physically these women are living amongst us in a 21st century world, but mentally they are trapped in an appalling philosophy emanating from the dark ages - and they are imprisoned there by the tenets of the verses in a 1500 year old book - which incidentally, I note you haven't commented on.
continued...
...continued
If the reason this is happening were political, I imagine you'd condemn it - at least I hope you would - but because religion is involved, you support it - just as you determinedly and vigorously support the rights of Jehovah's Witness parents to deny their children life-saving blood transfusions. Well, contrary to your clear conviction that, however appalling its philosophy, religion takes precedence over decent human principles, it doesn't.
You have never spoken to any of these women, nor to the men, and yet you presume to add your voice in condemning fellow human beings to a life that no rational person given a real choice would ever elect for. Everton, you're a sad little man who is completely devoid of understanding, and who can see no farther than the end of his nose. The women of Islam have nothing whatsoever to thank you for - but you're a hero to the men who continue to endorse this way of life! Shame on you!
If the reason this is happening were political, I imagine you'd condemn it - at least I hope you would - but because religion is involved, you support it - just as you determinedly and vigorously support the rights of Jehovah's Witness parents to deny their children life-saving blood transfusions. Well, contrary to your clear conviction that, however appalling its philosophy, religion takes precedence over decent human principles, it doesn't.
You have never spoken to any of these women, nor to the men, and yet you presume to add your voice in condemning fellow human beings to a life that no rational person given a real choice would ever elect for. Everton, you're a sad little man who is completely devoid of understanding, and who can see no farther than the end of his nose. The women of Islam have nothing whatsoever to thank you for - but you're a hero to the men who continue to endorse this way of life! Shame on you!
Having read many biographies on the oppression of women in Iran and Afghanistan, the male of the species makes the rules and the female has to abide by them, when the female child reaches puberty they have to wear the veil, these teachings are entrenched in them for birth so no matter which country the reside in, they are following that trend, I dislike them but only from the point of view, I prefer to see someones face as opposed to only their eyes, I have spoken to people who have the Burka on when I was in retail as no doubt BOO has too, I feel at a disadvantage only seeing the black-clad figures eyes, their own Mother country decrees this, we don't and I am afraid they make themselves 'different' bu wearing it, I doubt we are strong enough to ban anything , let alone womens garments!
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