Racism, Or Just A Bit Of Harmless Banter?

[OrcadianOil]

Music outlet HMV has been selling World Cup T-Shirts in its Scottish stores bearing the logo "ABE" (Anyone But England). A group calling itself the Campaign for an English Parliament (CEP) is claiming that such a logo is tantamount to "racial hatred". The retailer denies this and defends itself by stating that it's simply good natured banter.
So, is it? Can Scots racially discriminate against the English (or vice versa?). How can it be "racial hatred" when we're all British? Different cultures, yes, but aren't those of us in the UK basically of the same ethnicity, therefore unable to racially discriminate against one another?
Or is the CEP correct, and the Scots are indeed inciting racial hatred towards the English who are indeed a different race to the Scots, who in turn are also a different race to the Welsh etc etc etc?
Or is it all simply good natured banter as the retailer insists?

http://news.bbc.co.uk...scotland/10357018.stm

[wolf63]

I think that the ABE concept is funny - but maybe the English don't.

In Scotland we laugh at everybody - including ourselves.

[wildwood]

Good grief! What has become of the world?

Irish, Scottish, English and Welsh banter has been going on since I was a twinkle in my Daddy's eye. Have we now lost our sense of humour completely?

[wolf63]

At some point in the future jokes will be banned totally to ensure that nobody feels that they are being victimised.

[VHG]

The problem is if a shop put up a sign saying "anyone but muslims" or "anyone but chinese" they would be taken to court.

I guess to be "fair" they have to come down on any sort of blatant racism (even if it is faintly humerous).

Anyway the scots seem to be getting their way as England seems as though they may be coming home early.

[VINNY100_2]

The English are the biggest pi$$takers in the world.The ABE logo is funny,pity its not on a better looking T-Shirt.Like the scottish guy who was selling it said,he was jealous off the english for getting to the world cup.Its just harmless fun.(:O)ENG╬LAND.

[mightyWBA]

I think most intelligent people can tell between racism and banter.
If the Scots were selling "Good luck England" T Shirts I'd be more worried.

Anybody want to buy an "Anybody but Andy Murray" T Shirt?
;-)

[beejay1124]

the jocks will be too tight-fisted to buy them

[weecalf]

Does ABBA mean any body but argentina/australia /america then?

[brionon]

I'm English and I always cheer for Scotlans,Wales and Ireland. They must do what they wish.

[modeller]

It's not Racism , it's Nationalism . On this island of ours we are all mongrels we are a mixture of a dozen or more races from all over Europe and a few from beyond.
So none of us are " pure " .
Many of the Scots the Welsh and to a lesser extent the Cornish were driven out of England by the European invaders so they can claim to be a "bit purer " than the English. It's where we live and our culture that makes us different.

[woofgang]

I am English and I would wear one!!

[Everhelpful]

Wildwood is totally correct!!

[Backdrifter]

The ABE thing isn't especially funny - not that it's 'offensive', just boring & predictable. You'd have to have pretty low humour threshold to find it 'funny' - but either way, it's not racist and to suggest it "incites racial hatred" is so ridiculous it's ten times funnier than the slogan itself.

I reckon there's a kind of background expectation in Scotland that you have to make a few anti-English comments every now & then and that a lot of people don't feel especially strongly about it but go along with it because it's expected. It's on the same level as the all-Scots-are-tight-fisted stuff the English come out with - see one of the above comments; it's a sort of reflex, "We're talking about the Scottish, oh well I'd better make a tight-fistedness joke then". Most Scottish people might find it a bit tired and predictable but probably not take offence at it.

Anyway, seeing as Scotland rarely make it to any finals, they probably feel they have to vent their frustration somehow, which is fair enough.

[craft1948]

I'm not offended at all......and if it makes the Scots feel better because they never even got to the World Cup finals then let them carry on selling them.

[modeller]

Having done business with the Scots and the English at the same time I wouldn't say they were tight fisted but they are very, very canny and were averse to risk taking .
As part Scottish myself I recognise the characteristic.

[TTG]

Don't think it's racist at all...just harmless banter. Although if Scotland were in the World Cup, a lot of English (myself included) would support them.

[joeluke]

It's just like the car sticker I once saw stating 'I support Scotland......and whoever England are playing'

I think they call it envy on the jocks part - that they don't have a football team good enough to reach the World Cup finals these days, and in the distant past when they did they never made it past the group stages, losing to those footballing giants from Costa Rica, Morocco and Peru

I didn't think the scots were that bothered who wins the World Cup anyway, I thought they were all watching repeats of 'Wish You Were Here' instead

[TCL-MUMPING]

Scots and the English are separate races as far as the law is concerned but the the t-shirt refers to the England team and not the English so I doubt a legal challenge would win.

[wolf63]

I find, as a Scot, that the media hype over England in the football cup is what fuels the anybody-but-England feeling.

I have no anti-English feelings, my brother lives in England and has married a lovely English girl and has three intelligent 'English' children. They are all the most important people in my life - after my two Scottish moggies.

;-)

[OrcadianOil]

wolf63,
Know what you mean. My "Trouble's" also English, and we live there, too. I do agree that it's always the media in England which whips everything into a frenzy and gives people false hope.

The facts are that England had a simple qualifying Group to reach the finals and an even easier one to qualify from, but have now been found out for what they are - just another mediocre team.

Far too much is made of the Premiership which, when you actually analyse it, is only really what it is because of the foreigners who play in it. And that of course stifles young English talent who find it nigh on impossible to break into club sides, let alone the national team.

Therefore, England still find themselves qualifying, but how many in the present squad are there for the first time? And how many are the same old names who have failed to make real impacts in major tournaments for England? Let's face it, Terry, Gerrard, Lampard, Cole, Heskey, James, Carragher, Crouch, even Rooney, have never made a significant contribution at European or World level for England. That tells the true tale.