Crosswords3 mins ago
Possible lead in the Jo Yeates's murder.
85 Answers
It has been reported that saliva which may have belonged to Jo Yeates's killer has been discovered on her body.
Is this now a good reason why there should not be a nationwide DNA bank?
If the answer is no, then why not?
Is this now a good reason why there should not be a nationwide DNA bank?
If the answer is no, then why not?
Answers
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We all have an NI number,we all have ID,we are on hundreds of databases and are constantly recorded on CCTV. It may all be a bit 1984 ish but I see nothing wrong in a DNA database. I have done nothing wrong either and if it will solve just one murder and put the guy(s) who killed Jo into prison then I'm all for it.I bet you would feel different if one of your loved-ones were victims.
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No sorry I'm not convinced. Ganesh and pinkilady you seem swept away by this new legal procedure that will many criminals are convicted and imprisoned leaving a great crime free utopian society. Would you feel the same if in twenty years time you were getting thrown in prison everytime your dna was found on litter or a cigarette butt which you knew wasn't you or that a close family member or friend was implicated and jailed for a crime that happened many years ago and you knew they'd never done it? Again no system is 100%problem free and computer errors hackers and shady government officials will abuse this system and innocent people will be jailed and the key thrown away as the Dna system is obviously '100%' isn't it...
Talk about mass hysteria I have never read such rubbish excuses for why we should not have a DNA data base.
It is ironic that most who disagree most likely belong to the left of the political spectrum, the 'LEFT' who would wish to take control over you from the cradle to the grave. Communism the most controlling political party in the world.
Most voluntary go around all day with their companies ID card hanging from their necks, they even class them as a form of designer jewellery because they seem proud to continue to wear them after work and around their supermarket.
They also accept their photograph on their driving licence, and have no qualms regarding their pass-ports (what if someone happens to forge it while it is lying behind some foreign hotels desk) one may ask?
Mind you have to be so careful, how do we know that all fingerprints and DNAs are unique?
Worry, worry, worry,
It is ironic that most who disagree most likely belong to the left of the political spectrum, the 'LEFT' who would wish to take control over you from the cradle to the grave. Communism the most controlling political party in the world.
Most voluntary go around all day with their companies ID card hanging from their necks, they even class them as a form of designer jewellery because they seem proud to continue to wear them after work and around their supermarket.
They also accept their photograph on their driving licence, and have no qualms regarding their pass-ports (what if someone happens to forge it while it is lying behind some foreign hotels desk) one may ask?
Mind you have to be so careful, how do we know that all fingerprints and DNAs are unique?
Worry, worry, worry,
I'm not saying it's a perfect solution but it's a very useful piece of evidence that could lead to her murderer.I'm sure there are many people wrongly accused of crimes and some in prison that shouldn't be and a lot of people have been 'framed' etc.but DNA provides more clues.,and maybe some of those wrongly committed in the past would be free if thay had had DNA to lead to the real criminals.I have not been swept away by these new ideas and I can see their flaws,but I still think it is a way forward.And I still say you would not be whinging about 'civil liberties' if one of your family had been raped or murdered-you would be desperate for any evidence!
My oh my again you're all looking at the small picture that 'they' want you to see but look behind this picture and you will see there's more to this then meets the eye. Anotheoldgit what has politics got to do with this? Do you fully understand what can be done with your dna now and in the future? By your answer obviously not. Believe you me in the future when advances in cloning amongst other things become easily done at any underground lab you'll be hating the day you allowed for the system to have your dna.
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Interesting article here.
See DNA is a tricky thing that gets into complex areas of statistics.
Say there is a rape, they get a DNA sample, they take the DNA of the ex-boyfriend and it is a match with what they call a "one on 25'000 probability" and in that narrow case that is true, because they only compared the sample DNA with the one most likely suspect.
But say every DNA of everyone in the UK 60 million people, lets narrow it down to the roughly 30 million males. That 1:25'000 statistic all of a sudden gets skewed as you have way more than 25'000 DNA profiles to compare it with. Assuming random DNA profile and and an accuracy as high as 1;100'000 you will still by chance get 300 positive matches.
That's the thing with DNA matches, the wider you cast the net the FAR more likely you are to get a false positive.
And unlike fingerprints, it is VERY easy to plant DNA and on top of that it can be far less unique. For example genetically identical twins each have unique fingerprints. And not to mention contamination, you'll be amazed how easy it can happen, an investigating officer interviews as suspect, comes in close contract with them and then may handle vital evidence or visit a crime scene. Of course the investigating officer has their DNA excluded but not the suspect they may have slapped cuffs on.
DNA is vital for CONFIRMING a suspect, but the idea of a massive database to catch all... no, it is fraught with danger and hugely open to abuse.
See DNA is a tricky thing that gets into complex areas of statistics.
Say there is a rape, they get a DNA sample, they take the DNA of the ex-boyfriend and it is a match with what they call a "one on 25'000 probability" and in that narrow case that is true, because they only compared the sample DNA with the one most likely suspect.
But say every DNA of everyone in the UK 60 million people, lets narrow it down to the roughly 30 million males. That 1:25'000 statistic all of a sudden gets skewed as you have way more than 25'000 DNA profiles to compare it with. Assuming random DNA profile and and an accuracy as high as 1;100'000 you will still by chance get 300 positive matches.
That's the thing with DNA matches, the wider you cast the net the FAR more likely you are to get a false positive.
And unlike fingerprints, it is VERY easy to plant DNA and on top of that it can be far less unique. For example genetically identical twins each have unique fingerprints. And not to mention contamination, you'll be amazed how easy it can happen, an investigating officer interviews as suspect, comes in close contract with them and then may handle vital evidence or visit a crime scene. Of course the investigating officer has their DNA excluded but not the suspect they may have slapped cuffs on.
DNA is vital for CONFIRMING a suspect, but the idea of a massive database to catch all... no, it is fraught with danger and hugely open to abuse.
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AAnd here.
For the potential for abuse.
Do you know how easy it is to replicate a DNA sample just from the raw code on a computer? this can be planted in a crime scene and have you any idea what MASSIVE security leaks there are of sensitive government documents, both by carelessness and espionage of the Corporate governmental and criminal variety.
A national DNA database is a blackmailer's goldmine. They can cross match to find prominent figures who have fathered illegitimate sons, evidence of inbreeding, relations to unsavoury figures from history. Religious and ethnic groups would love to know who has been mixing with the wrong castes and track down "rogue" daughters who just want to leave and start their own families.
Insurance companies would love this. What if you had a congenital heart disease or predisposition to cancer? The entire point of insurance is No One Knows their individual risk, most pay far more than they will ever use in medical care. But when everyone's DNA is laid out it will be clear who will be "leaching" off the insurance, their premiums will go up or they will be politely refused.
What about genes for intelligence, violence, sexual orientation? All of these will be available to the highest bidder and it is not a matter of IF, but WHEN this data gets into the open.
Nothing to hide? You have EVERYTHING to hide!
For the potential for abuse.
Do you know how easy it is to replicate a DNA sample just from the raw code on a computer? this can be planted in a crime scene and have you any idea what MASSIVE security leaks there are of sensitive government documents, both by carelessness and espionage of the Corporate governmental and criminal variety.
A national DNA database is a blackmailer's goldmine. They can cross match to find prominent figures who have fathered illegitimate sons, evidence of inbreeding, relations to unsavoury figures from history. Religious and ethnic groups would love to know who has been mixing with the wrong castes and track down "rogue" daughters who just want to leave and start their own families.
Insurance companies would love this. What if you had a congenital heart disease or predisposition to cancer? The entire point of insurance is No One Knows their individual risk, most pay far more than they will ever use in medical care. But when everyone's DNA is laid out it will be clear who will be "leaching" off the insurance, their premiums will go up or they will be politely refused.
What about genes for intelligence, violence, sexual orientation? All of these will be available to the highest bidder and it is not a matter of IF, but WHEN this data gets into the open.
Nothing to hide? You have EVERYTHING to hide!
as has been discussed here before, dna is another tool to help convict the guilty...and, conversly, help prove the innocence of the innocent.
how to collect such samples? easy, any opportunity that presents itself - a visit to the doctor, hospital, dentist, etc. patients are asked to provide a sample, any refusals are marked down as just that, a refusal. no body is forced to give a sample but they will be known to have refused. all new babies would have their dna taken as a matter of course. over a number of years, every single person has their dna on record. just as our medical history is, our national insurance numbers are, even our bank accounts and computer history.
dna isn't a magic wand but personally i feel it's an important part of modern crime detection and the sooner they bring in legislation to start a national database of it, the better.
how to collect such samples? easy, any opportunity that presents itself - a visit to the doctor, hospital, dentist, etc. patients are asked to provide a sample, any refusals are marked down as just that, a refusal. no body is forced to give a sample but they will be known to have refused. all new babies would have their dna taken as a matter of course. over a number of years, every single person has their dna on record. just as our medical history is, our national insurance numbers are, even our bank accounts and computer history.
dna isn't a magic wand but personally i feel it's an important part of modern crime detection and the sooner they bring in legislation to start a national database of it, the better.
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