Police shooting in London

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.guardian.c...-london?newsfeed=true

/// A police spokesman said "a number of knives" were found at the scene and added that officers were meeting the local community to ensure "they are aware of the facts of this incident".///

Why do the police have to explain their actions to the 'Local Community', are they scared it might set off a riot?

One report says he was brandishing a large knife or sword, and that there were a number of knives at the scene.

[tonyav]

He was waving a large knife or sword about, ten the police have to do whatever is needed to put a stop to it, simples imo.

[sandyRoe]

The police say he was armed with a knife. They said the Brazilian, John Charles de Menezes, was acting suspiciously.
Sometimes what they say isn't quite the truth.

[daffy654]

Certain members of the public jump to stupid conclusions when the police have to shoot someone. I'm sure they don't take the decision to do so lightly.

[Gromit]

There was a schoolbus crash in France over the weekend. A long way from the school in England, and the accident was not under UK Police's patch. However, a police operation has been put into effect and resources depolyed.

// West Mercia Police said it was doing all it could to support and help the families of the children and members of the staff involved. It said specially trained family liaison officers had been put in place at the school. //

Which goes to illustrate that the police has changed from its traditional role.

Do we have our fingers crossed that the shot car thief is black?

[Gromit]

Hope they checked first that the tazer weapon was not illegally held and unapproved like the one that did for that Moat fellow, before they fired the trigger.

[RATTER15]

AOG, I dont see the bit where its says:

They have to explain their actions to the 'Local Community.

Do you think that a shooting a member of the public should be kept quiet?

Then you would be asking for more details of the shooting and why is it all being hushed up!

Some people will never be happy.

[anotheoldgit]

Gromit

Different set of circumstances altogether.

In your failed analogy, the bus accident took place hundreds of miles away in a foreign country, and there were children involved and a large group of anxious parents waiting at home for news of their children.

/// Do we have our fingers crossed that the shot car thief is black? ///

I do not know what you are implying by this statement, does it matter what colour skin this alleged car thief happened to have?

But seeing that he originally came from Ghana, I think we can take it that he most likely was black.

[Kromovaracun]

"Why do the police have to explain their actions to the 'Local Community', are they scared it might set off a riot? "

Why shouldn't they? The police, as is often said, have an awful lot of responsibility and an extremely difficult task. It is extremely difficult to guarantee that the force can carry their task out without this power being abused. As it happens, accountability is a pretty good way to work against that. Nobody would say that the police job is easy but (like soldiers) they know that when they take the decision to join up. We entrust the police with a very important and powerful role in our society - it seems perfectly rational to want to check over what they're doing.

I realise this is anathema to those who love authority (including that of other people) more than they love anything else, but personally I think that's a bizarre and unsustainable attitude.

[jno]

a police shooting set off several days of rioting last year. As sandyRoe says, their initial explanations sometimes turnout to have significant factual inaccuracies; but at least they're trying.

[Gromit]

I hadn't spotted that he was from Ghana. That explains why you are posting about it.

[pa___ul3]

I'd say that was good policing, I think it's important for the police to keep liaisons with the community anyway and such high profile incidents should always be discussed.

[FredPuli43]

It's a bit naive to think that police don't know that rumours spread very quickly, that there are troublemakers who will invent stories, and that there are people in some communities who have animosity to the police. That might not 'cause a riot' , but it may further distrust of the police. It's good policing to inform the 'local community' of the facts. That's apart from telling the media and so the rest of Britain.

[sp1814]

Should the police be locally accountable or not?

Probably best.

In the days before the last Labour government, local police forces were exactly that - local. However, the trend towards centralisation/control has meant that people no longer actualy see any '*local* officers (the whole 'bobbies on the beat' thing). We don't know our local officers and we don't know their supers.

The police often work with representatives of demoninations, whether they be the Countryside Alliance, G8 protesters or Glastonbury organisers.

...and let's not forget - dozens of black suspects have died in police custody over the past fifty years without setting off riots. Perhaps the police are just a little sensitive after the public reaction to Moat and Duggan

[anotheoldgit]

sp1814

Causal factor Number of deaths % of all deaths

Deceased’s own actions 172 63%

Deceased’s medical condition 81 29%

Another person’s actions
may have been associated 22 8%

/// The vast majority (87%) of those dying in police custody were white. Although,the proportion of detainees who died and were black exceeded the proportion of black people in the general population, this could partly be explained by their
proportionately higher number of arrests. ///

Police Research Series
Paper 26

[sp1814]

AOG

Are there figures for the proportion (as a %) of white detainees who die in custody?

Actually - figures can be skewed dependent on why the person was arrested. You are much more likely to die in custody if you have been arrested for drink/drugs than if you've been arrested for something like shoplifting.

[New Judge]

It would be interesting to speculate how much the "local community" would have been involved had this incident taken place in, say, Godalming instead of Forest Hill.

My own guess is somewhere around the "Not at all" level.

[sp1814]

My last post was badly worded.

What I meant was, "are there figures which show the % of white detainees who die in custody, compared to the % of non-white detainees who die in custody".

My guess is that the figures will be largely similar, and it would take something extraordinary and public for the public to react.

People reacted over Duggan.

People reacted over Moat.

People reacted over Tomlinson (the chap who got hit to the ground during the G20 riots).

However, these are certainly not the only deaths that have been meted out by the police (not attributing blame - just the facts). And people don't react to every death...

[sp1814]

New Judge

We already know - look at the public reaction to the shootin of Raul Moat. I read a pretty shocking report about how the public reacted in the Guardian at the time, and the number of people who supported him.

Pretty scary picture of 'rural Britain'.