church shock...!

[swedeheart]

I'm trying to find the English word for an item that was used in churches in olden days - well, at least over here in Sweden it was, but as I can't find the word in any of my English dictionaries I'm starting to think that maybe the custom as such was a strictly Nordic one. (And, if so, what does that say about us;-)

The item in question is a long rod/staff - three metres or so - that the sexton would carry up and down the aisle to poke at members of the congregation asleep in the pews. Like an... er... ecclesiastical cattle prod, if you like.

Apart from dictionaries I've also tried Google Translate, who give 'church shock'...! ...but that's not it, is it, that's just a verbatim translation.

So, is there such a word and was there ever such a custom in the UK or the US or wherever you're at, that's my question.

[Mosaic]

I was not raised as an Anglican, but from my own church experience anyone poking a member of the congregation would get poked right back. I've not come across any such stick,although parish officials such as beadles and churchwardens did have ceremonial staffs of office in some (but not all) anglican parishes. Don't know of these being used for poking though!
What's the Swedish word in question, out of curiosity?

[jno]

a virge maybe?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verger#The_Virge

[woofgang]

its called a virge Sweedie, used by a virger.
http://www.vergers.org/about/FAQ

[boxtops]

Is it a crook or crozier, many priests still carry them? They are as tall as a man in some cases. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crosier

[jno]

incidentally, there's a picture of one a bit higher up in that Wiki article

[mccfluff]

i love it, it would almost be worth going to church to see that

[swedeheart]

Fantastic, thanks everybody! :))

Mosaic: The word in Swedish is 'kyrkstöt'. It's colloquial, but up till now it's been the only word I've known for it.

kyrk= of a 'kyrka'
kyrka = church

stöt = a blow/prod/jab/thump etc


I'm a happy Swede now!

[Mosaic]

Thanks Swedeheart! wofgang - fascinating etymology of verger - but did they actualy poke people with said virge? I can't see your average Brit standing for that.

[dundurn]

I always thought vergers went at the front of the church procession so that they were up at the altar end of the church and therefore not available for "poking" the congregation, asleep or awake! Incidentally swedeheart, kirk and stot would make perfect sense in Scotland. The kirk is the church and stot is the Scots word for a bounce - so goalkeepers frequently stot the ball a couple of times before kicking it downfield.

[swedeheart]

That's interesting dundurn - I knew the word 'kirk' but 'stot' I hadn't heard. Yes mosaic and dundurn, it would be interesting to know more about whether there was poking going on or not:) The forerunners of Facebook pokes ha ha... My guess would be that the wake up poking was just a spinoff function of the 'kirkstot' (!) anyway.

[mike11111]

In the CofE they were called wands. They were carried in ceremonial procession by the churchwardens. When not in use they stood at the back pew of the nave. One was adorned with a crown, denoting the people's warden and the other with a mitre, denoting the bishop's warden, thus symbolising the division between clergy and laity. Although still familiar in traditional Anglican churches, they are of mere historical interest, as I gather that a distinction is no longer made between people's and bishop's warden. Never saw them used to prod anyone, though.

[swedeheart]

Thanks mike, that's interesting about the crown and the mitre.

[Quizmonster]

I'm reminded of the - no doubt apocryphal - story of the Scottish verger who watched suspiciously as an old woman carrying an ear-trumpet entered the church . Never having seen her or such an instrument before, he imagined she might disrupt the service. Eventually, he approached her and stage-whispered, "Ae toot an' yer oot!"

(It's no big deal and of no great interest to anyone else, I imagine, but this is my 12,000th answer here.)

[dundurn]

Congratulations, Quizmonster. I do regret the passing of the ability to add emphasis to our posts - this one would qualify for a bit of italics, underlining and/or emboldening!

[swedeheart]

Sitting here wiping tears of laughter, QM. Did take me, the foreigner, a while to decode the phonetics but all of a sudden Angus Hudson (of Upstairs, Downstairs) came to my rescue, I heard him say "Ae toot an' yer oot!" in my head and it all became clear. I swear if this chair where I'm sitting hadn't had armrests I would have fallen out of it laughing...

I'm honoured that your 12,000th answer should befall one of my questions. Congratulations QM, what an awe-inspiring feat. Keep up the good work, it matters a great deal.

[Jude123]

Now I understand that Kit. You'll know what I mean ~ I hope!