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"The Turning Tide"
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Good evening word-wranglers,
I wondered if anyone could offer me their translation/research skills.
I'm looking to translate the above phrase into Anglo-saxon/Old English/Regional English.
Happy to hear more foreign versions too, Nordic or Germanic sounding would be a preference.
I'm looking for one which "sounds right".
Sorry for the odd question, but I know you're all creative souls!
All the best,
Spare Ed
I wondered if anyone could offer me their translation/research skills.
I'm looking to translate the above phrase into Anglo-saxon/Old English/Regional English.
Happy to hear more foreign versions too, Nordic or Germanic sounding would be a preference.
I'm looking for one which "sounds right".
Sorry for the odd question, but I know you're all creative souls!
All the best,
Spare Ed
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Sorry, I knew I wasn't going to me much help.
I'm after names. Or rather, words which sound like names in English (or could be bludgeoned to look so) - some for monsters, some for "people".
Undertow is important because it is perceived as dangerous - but isn't necessarily.
And yes, water zombies were one reason why I paddled in this direction - but they won't be featuring directly!
Olaus Magnus, looking crackin'.
And this is marvellous:
I'm after names. Or rather, words which sound like names in English (or could be bludgeoned to look so) - some for monsters, some for "people".
Undertow is important because it is perceived as dangerous - but isn't necessarily.
And yes, water zombies were one reason why I paddled in this direction - but they won't be featuring directly!
Olaus Magnus, looking crackin'.
And this is marvellous:
Okay Spare, you're slowly starting to make sense;-) *wipes sweat off forehead* Like, for instance, if your story were set in the forest instead of related to the sea, you might name one of your characters Trollius or Trollian or Trollina? (cf. 'troll', which is not just an internet phenomenon but also a creature of the forest in Scandinavian folklore.) Is that what you mean? Please confirm, and I will help you. I think I can. Just one question, would it not be a problem that your British readers won't be able to see the... pun, or whatchamallit?
Undertow, yes, I know what you mean, even if it is a misconception it is still perceived as dangerous and we react to the word accordingly. The Swedish equivalent that first comes to mind for me is 'bakström'. Compound nouns are very common in Swedish and bakström is one of them. Bak used as a prefix (as in bakström) means at the back, behind, and ström means current (in this case as in a current of water, but in other contexts also as in an electric current or as in a stream of something: a constant stream of customers, or whatever).
To the best of my understanding bakström means the same as your English undertow. Bakström can also be used to describe the wake behind a boat, but there is another word - kölvatten - that is more commonly used for that purpose, so I really think that bakström is your word. (CONTINUED BELOW)
Undertow, yes, I know what you mean, even if it is a misconception it is still perceived as dangerous and we react to the word accordingly. The Swedish equivalent that first comes to mind for me is 'bakström'. Compound nouns are very common in Swedish and bakström is one of them. Bak used as a prefix (as in bakström) means at the back, behind, and ström means current (in this case as in a current of water, but in other contexts also as in an electric current or as in a stream of something: a constant stream of customers, or whatever).
To the best of my understanding bakström means the same as your English undertow. Bakström can also be used to describe the wake behind a boat, but there is another word - kölvatten - that is more commonly used for that purpose, so I really think that bakström is your word. (CONTINUED BELOW)
(CONTINUED FROM ABOVE) Guess what. It is common for Swedish surnames to end with ström! (It's even a surname in its own right, for instance somebody could be named say Peter Ström.) For a children's story in Swedish it might be... er... funny? to have one of the characters called Bakström, as the word bak (apart from meaning at the back) also means bottom, bum:) It's an innocent word, not very naughty, but it could get naughty in a fun, childish way if the character Bakström was so called cos he suffered from diarrhoea... But I guess that doesn't help you very much as you will be needing to anglicise the words/names. (I should mention bak also means baking/batch - just so you know it has several meanings.)
As I said there are a number of more or less synonyms for bakström, one of them is bakvatten. (Vatten = water.) But this word seems to be used mostly when talking about streams, not so much the ocean. The word bakvatten has a more stagnant feel to it than bakström, in my opinion. I'm pretty sure you should go for 'bakström'. Although I have to say as a word 'undertow' is much more beautiful and dangerous sounding.
Well Spare, that's it for now but if you will confirm that I've read you correctly (see troll example) I will keep thinking. I just don't want to do any thinking unnecessarily ha ha...
As I said there are a number of more or less synonyms for bakström, one of them is bakvatten. (Vatten = water.) But this word seems to be used mostly when talking about streams, not so much the ocean. The word bakvatten has a more stagnant feel to it than bakström, in my opinion. I'm pretty sure you should go for 'bakström'. Although I have to say as a word 'undertow' is much more beautiful and dangerous sounding.
Well Spare, that's it for now but if you will confirm that I've read you correctly (see troll example) I will keep thinking. I just don't want to do any thinking unnecessarily ha ha...
You've got me exactly. Although if it were forest based I might want words for bracken & bramble, weeds & saplings, the shade caused by trees and translations of "canopy".
The reason for using "foreign" is it add to that feeling of distance, strangeness, unheimlich etc. It also allow me to have this excellent lesson from yourself.
With a little digging they might find what the names mean. If they don't dig it is merely a pleasant sounding name for strange semi-mythical creatures, which is good enough!
Do you have any words for the sublime by the way? Or any close meanings? I am talking about it in the Edmund Burke sense.
This is really an excellent read by the way.
The reason for using "foreign" is it add to that feeling of distance, strangeness, unheimlich etc. It also allow me to have this excellent lesson from yourself.
With a little digging they might find what the names mean. If they don't dig it is merely a pleasant sounding name for strange semi-mythical creatures, which is good enough!
Do you have any words for the sublime by the way? Or any close meanings? I am talking about it in the Edmund Burke sense.
This is really an excellent read by the way.
Right, think I've got you now. I'll do some thinking and googling and mulling it over and post here again - unless you'd rather I email you? It only just occured to me you may have already emailed me at the address associated with my AB account but I'm afraid I don't know where the password to that one has got to. I'll find it again but right now I don't have any access to that box. I changed because of the Gravatar business, didn't want my fox plastered everywhere.
Oh BTW (so forgetful) I said yesterday it is common for Swedish surnames to end with ström but it is also common for them to begin with it, i.e. Strömberg (berg = mountain) or Strömbäck (bäck = brook).
Have to admit I've never delved into the philosophical concept of sublimity. In Swedish, as in English, there's a philosophical usage (or rather, there are many!) and a more informal one. Like you, we use the same word for both. As an adjective it is 'sublim'. As a noun, 'sublimitet'. So, very similar to English and not very exciting, I'm afraid. While reading your link I kept hearing Yeats' line "A Terrible Beauty Is Born" - but I don't suppose that helps you much;-)
There's a Hebrew word 'marom' that is used both to denote heights (heavenly) and as a surname. I kept coming across it while googling sublime just then. Has a good ring to it methinks, if you don't mind mixing languages. You should probably make sure it doesn't represent God or anything else that will get you in trouble ha ha...
"I'll be back." (Give me some time.)
Oh BTW (so forgetful) I said yesterday it is common for Swedish surnames to end with ström but it is also common for them to begin with it, i.e. Strömberg (berg = mountain) or Strömbäck (bäck = brook).
Have to admit I've never delved into the philosophical concept of sublimity. In Swedish, as in English, there's a philosophical usage (or rather, there are many!) and a more informal one. Like you, we use the same word for both. As an adjective it is 'sublim'. As a noun, 'sublimitet'. So, very similar to English and not very exciting, I'm afraid. While reading your link I kept hearing Yeats' line "A Terrible Beauty Is Born" - but I don't suppose that helps you much;-)
There's a Hebrew word 'marom' that is used both to denote heights (heavenly) and as a surname. I kept coming across it while googling sublime just then. Has a good ring to it methinks, if you don't mind mixing languages. You should probably make sure it doesn't represent God or anything else that will get you in trouble ha ha...
"I'll be back." (Give me some time.)
Thank you Swede. I am happy to discuss it here, although if you'd find it easier to in another format I'm happy to swap.
Marom is nice. I wouldn't like to head to Hebrew though, becomes too religious too quickly! The connotations are so quickly fracturing and expanding there is a danger of losing intended meanings. I do realise talking about intention is a bit redundant - no one cares about it at the other end.
///While reading your link I kept hearing Yeats' line "A Terrible Beauty Is Born"///
He was good at the romantic stuff. Although I do like what happened to him once he collided with Pound & Co. For example, The Second Coming:
TURNING and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.
Surely some revelation is at hand;
Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi
Troubles my sight: somewhere in sands of the desert
A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
Reel shadows of the indignant desert birds.
The darkness drops again; but now I know
That twenty centuries of stony sleep
Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?
His fascination with "The Gyre" is a fun topic to look into if you have the time (probably best left for a rainy day). Fits nicely with Vorticism though.
So in a way Swede, it did help. I haven't read
Marom is nice. I wouldn't like to head to Hebrew though, becomes too religious too quickly! The connotations are so quickly fracturing and expanding there is a danger of losing intended meanings. I do realise talking about intention is a bit redundant - no one cares about it at the other end.
///While reading your link I kept hearing Yeats' line "A Terrible Beauty Is Born"///
He was good at the romantic stuff. Although I do like what happened to him once he collided with Pound & Co. For example, The Second Coming:
TURNING and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.
Surely some revelation is at hand;
Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi
Troubles my sight: somewhere in sands of the desert
A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
Reel shadows of the indignant desert birds.
The darkness drops again; but now I know
That twenty centuries of stony sleep
Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?
His fascination with "The Gyre" is a fun topic to look into if you have the time (probably best left for a rainy day). Fits nicely with Vorticism though.
So in a way Swede, it did help. I haven't read
I like the noise of that one, Spare! ('noise', I learned that one from you:) The last few lines are awesome, heard them before but hadn't read the whole poem. Had a quick glance at his gyre thing. John William Dunne comes to mind, in particular his essay An Experiment With Time http://en.wikipedia.o..._Experiment_with_Time I tried to read that one in my youth but his explanations were too mathematical for me. But I'm into that sort of thing - all Time being present at once.
One of the Swedish words for vortex is malström, but, again, that sounds too much like the English word! Damned Vikings, shoving our lingo down your throats! But there is also another word, strömvirvel or just virvel. Virvel could be a name for your book could it not. It isn't used just for water or air, you could also talk about a virvel pattern on a skirt or whatever. Whereas if you say strömvirvel 99 people out of a hundred would think of water. 'Virvel', I like it, looks a bit like Virgil! Although the i in virvel is pronounced like the i in 'bit'. Have to admit I'm not certain about the possible differences between a malström and a strömvirvel and in English an eddy but I'll look into it more if you want to use Virvel as a name and if distinctions are important. Can't find all the definitions in Swedish on Wiki, I would have to make phone calls so I won't do that unless you actually jump at Virvel for a name.
Posting here is fine for me. I'll give myself perhaps a week or so to come up with a few ideas. BTW you were cut off at the end of this post - hope it wasn't a Descent Into The Maelström;-) (Poe.)
One of the Swedish words for vortex is malström, but, again, that sounds too much like the English word! Damned Vikings, shoving our lingo down your throats! But there is also another word, strömvirvel or just virvel. Virvel could be a name for your book could it not. It isn't used just for water or air, you could also talk about a virvel pattern on a skirt or whatever. Whereas if you say strömvirvel 99 people out of a hundred would think of water. 'Virvel', I like it, looks a bit like Virgil! Although the i in virvel is pronounced like the i in 'bit'. Have to admit I'm not certain about the possible differences between a malström and a strömvirvel and in English an eddy but I'll look into it more if you want to use Virvel as a name and if distinctions are important. Can't find all the definitions in Swedish on Wiki, I would have to make phone calls so I won't do that unless you actually jump at Virvel for a name.
Posting here is fine for me. I'll give myself perhaps a week or so to come up with a few ideas. BTW you were cut off at the end of this post - hope it wasn't a Descent Into The Maelström;-) (Poe.)
Dear Swede,
Thanks for all your fine help.
In answer to your question of the 14th - the answer is: both!
I am interested in any words which work as names (like Thomas, Richard or dear Harrison). But I would be happy for names of grouped things (Muggles being a fine example). So in short, anything and everything you've got!
Spare
Thanks for all your fine help.
In answer to your question of the 14th - the answer is: both!
I am interested in any words which work as names (like Thomas, Richard or dear Harrison). But I would be happy for names of grouped things (Muggles being a fine example). So in short, anything and everything you've got!
Spare
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