Listener 4052 - Question by Aedites

[Philoctetes]

This could get tough. Change ringing and lots of cold solving. Nice and meaty at first glance

[Mysterons]

The answer is a nine letter word and I'm not sure why you would need the ODQ. A huge clue is given in Aedites previous puzzle (3814), referred to above:

http://www.listenercrossword.com/Years/Y2005.html

Please don't look at this if you don't want to know the answer !!

[cruciverbali]

The wordplay in 33 across comprises alternate letters from 2 words.

[uncletony]

Mysterons, you may want to try googling the exact words of the definition...

[Philoctetes]

I did not realy enjoy this - as I feared it is chiefly a feast of cold solving, and, IMHO, the fact that each checked letter in an answer could be one of several actually made things worse. Also, though I believe the final word to the question is the one found in the ODQ, this leaves a sour taste as there is no indication. The two nine-letter alternatives, i believe, should be ruled out because they are a part of the answer as given (being less convoluted would give too much away). I still have no answer for 13a, though I obviously have all the letters to be entered from the relevant down lights. Overall a little unsatisfactory.

[Mysterons]

I think the fact that there is no such indication that a quotation is involved actually rules out the 6-letter word as the answer Philoctetes. If you check the Chambers definition of the 2005 answer it fits the bill precisely, and fills the space below the grid exactly. What reason is there to doubt that this is the correct answer ?

[cruciverbali]

13a:
'Accepted' = a
'embarrassment' = gene
'Society' = s

[x_word_fan]

I'm with the quotation if only because it contains not just the answer but also the "QUESTION" as per the title.

[Mysterons]

I think you are probably right - even if the other possibility was intended, the existence of the quotation would make it difficult not to allow this. I just wish that we had been required to highlight the encoded word in the ninth column.

[magwitch]

I don't agree that the Chambers definition of the 2005 answer fits the bill precisely, Mysterons, the key difference being the significance of the word "with" in the puzzle answer.

[Mysterons]

I'm considering myself politely tolled off.

[midazolam]

having started this last night and cold solved all but a few, then resorting to "word matcher" at www.quinapalus.com/matcher (which has similar choices as the link above) I finished with three choices for the question. Not realising there was a quotation i asked my wife (who does not do crosswords) the definition and she said "6 letter answer to the quotation" - which is what i am going with

I agree that this is poor as it is not specified that we should use ODQ. the 9 letter (mysterons 2005) was my original first choice going with chambers, but there is also a perfectly good 6 letter answer (??l??y associated with golf) defined in chambers. Really they both technically should be "consisting of" not "with" as per magwitch.

on the whole too many easy clues trying to numb the cold solving task is not a good balance for me.

[Mysterons]

I had a hunch you would back that choice.

[midazolam]

if i have learnt one thing mysterons: "never disagree with the wife"

[Clamzy]

I went with Mysterons on this for the same reason, that I remembered the earlier puzzle. I did consider the six letter answer, without knowing about the quotation, but reasoned that they don't all have a (fifth word with or without bells):-) Had I known about the quotation.........
Steeples

[emcee]

midazolam, the golf associated word is the one I plumped for. I'm sure the ODQ word (also 6 letters) is the one intended but I would feel harshly done by if I (and others) were marked down for an equally good alternative. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

I wonder if it's worth making John Green or the Listener website aware of this alternative.

[Mysterons]

I probably was a rather blinkered by the 2005 puzzle - should have realised that Aedites would want to ring the changes.

[Scorpius]

I cannot believe that the editors would allow an unsignalled quotation to be the key to the answer. There's not even a hint, such as quotation marks round "WHAT IS A ?" in the box. The nine-letter word seems far more satisfactory because of the etymological thematic connection, though of course the six-letter word must be a valid answer. I look forward to the controversy when the solution is published.

[Mysterons]

Or perhaps 'TIS A after the question mark would have made things as clear (as a bell ?)

[Cruncher]

I thought this was quite fun although once the changes were identified it was possible to fill a lot of the grid without knowing the answers. I distracted myself with JACK as perfectly plausible answer for 'sailor bird' until I realised that it couldn't work. I presumed the unclued definition must be a quotation to avoid ambiguity in the unchecked cells and therefore wondered whether the requirement to highlight a load of Gs was a reference to the author's name.
Does anyone know whether the Listeners have had their annual pub lunch and, if so, has Mr Green disclosed the number of still all-correct solvers?

[Mysterons]

I just assumed they were a pair of G-strings ?