Listener 4081 Double Cross by Radix

[serpentinew]

Listener 4081 Double Cross by Radix - Two for the price of one this week. Certainly lives up to its title!

[Ruthrobin]

What would be likely to happen to any poor soul who sends both? After all, both have within their content, in a sense, the instruction that they should be sent (just to add fuel to the fire!)

[JackDeCrow]

I guess since it is clear that there is one set that isn't meant to be sent, then sending both would have to be wrong! Bit of a struggle to start with this one, but more fun after printing off a second grid and I thought the ending was pretty neat.

[kwyjibo]

I only used one grid - put letters in bottom right and top left corner. It did get a bit messy but i don't submit. I think a closer look at the message from the rogue letters might confirm which solution to send in.

[kwyjibo]

I meant bottom left and top right.

[Mysterons]

jacinth, you said that filling in the 'alternative' box is evidence that the other grid has been completed, but my experience was the opposite, namely that I had both messages and knew which grid to send with only half of each grid filled.

[Clamzy]

I agree with Mysterons. This is one of those puzzles where it is possible to submit a correct solution without completing the whole thing.
I also agree with Ruthrobin that the title refers to the obvious and not some devious plot.
Off topic but I see in the other place the current supreme Listener solver agrees with the sentiments expressed by cJ and yours truly laste week.

[Clamzy]

Even last week:-)

[jacinth]

Yes, you're right Mysterons - I didn't get all of one of the instructions until quite near the end. I'm down to just two unexplained wordplays, so I think I'll put it aside for a couple of days!

[daagg]

Bit late this week - good, hard clues but no great excitement. I've tried asking for a 24dn in the pub, but I just get funny looks - any suggestions?

[Mysterons]

A funny look is better than nothing, I wouldn't knock it daagg.

[cluelessJoe]

Another typo Clamzy! Yes, number one solver endorses the lot, including your final observation re careless slips. I definitely draw the line somewhere, and for me it's at reaching a solution each week which to me seems satisfactory and final. I can't go that extra 'Long' mile and spend forever obsessively checking and rechecking every answer, definition and nuance - which is why I (and you I suspect) are destined to end up a handful short of all-correct each year ... a state of play I regret not one jot, I get plenty of enjoyment from the thrill of the chase.
Actually, I turn up late here this week because I ended up devoting much of my spare time over the weekend to watching the golf - is that confusing my priorities? One fine puzzle later, I did actually feel that I may have done Radix a disservice by relegating him to the back-burner, but I did enjoy this one even if it was a bit later than usual.

[jacinth]

All OK now - I really should be less paranoid! My dodgy clue in the relevant grid became clear to me, so all is good now. Or is it?

[Scorpius]

The message is certainly making me think twice about which grid to submit.

Sorting out the rogue letters and some of the wordplay was pretty tricky and I still don't understand the definition in the first clue in 1d (the wordplay and rogue letter are clear), nor the wordplay to the first clue to 18 across (if my answer's correct).

[Philoctetes]

I have two completed grids and a fairly explicit set of instructions. But I am less than enchanted with a number of clues - a couple of what look like free association definitions, one (what appears to be an) anagram indicator that I have never seen before, and a couple of clues to the only available answers that are just inexplicable. But, because my main problems lie in the grid I am not intending to submit, why should I care? This is not as taut as a Listener should be, IMHO.

[unfit27]

I'm new to this site, so am I naive in seeing two crosses - i.e. a double cross - and assuming the instructions to be literal and uncomplicated ? BTW what's a PDM ?

[jacinth]

Scorpius - I was getting myself into a twist by treating the message as a command rather than as a caution. The second word of the message is key here.

[daagg]

unfit, a PDM is when you realise what PDM stands for - it means "penny drop moment". Welcome to the fold.

[Cruncher]

Think I could go round in circles with this. Bit like the two monkeys really. Reckon that as the cautionary message will take you to the other set of answers, whichever set you plump for, the only guide is from the grid itself. Who knows. Suspect that this will spark a little debate. Was a little unhappy with the fiddler as the conventional spelling differs from the one used here

[Scorpius]

The definition to 1d struck me as obvious shortly after I posted my message. For some unaccountable reason I was looking at the answer as a common noun from Chambers.

The first clue in 18 across still puzzles me. The definition and wordplay don't seem to match, giving me two possible answers, depending on which I go by. I'll have to look at this closely again, when the brain's clearer.

[jacinth]

Scorpius - 18a was the one that was giving me grief too, and I thought I'd cracked it. I was about to give a nudge but I can't see how I was OK with it earlier - looking at it again.