religion and being a good person...

[joko]

why so many religious people believe that you cannot be a good person if you are not religious...?

someone on here once said ' but how can you possibly know how to be good without god in your life?'

cant remember who - it was ages ago, but i remmembered it because i was gobsmacked at what an idiotic comment it was

as though you would behave like a maniac and do terrible things unless 'someone' told you not to...

to me, being a good person is a part of humanity, of instinctively knowing right from wrong, and learning by example...it had nothing to do with gods word or religion.

why on earth do they believe this? it defies logic.

and given the atrocities committed in the name of religion its also laughable

what do you think?

[sandyRoe]

I agree with you.

[didoatwork]

I think my parents taught me right from wrong, certainly wasn't God.

[boxtops]

I agree with all of you. There is innate good in people whether or not they subscribe to a religion.

[rowanwitch]

behaviour management due to imposing an idea of extreme punishment...
or causing disappointment to a powerful father figure....

Be nice to be nice for its own sake really

[cazzz1975]

there is obviously a theory that a person without a faith is more likely not to be a good person, the faith is what keeps them in check.

[jno]

there's no 'instinctive' right and wrong, only what you've been taught or learnt from your culture. Religion may be one source of moral codes but of course there are others. Likewise it is possible for atheists to be vicious (Stalin comes to mind) even though they don't have a god telling them to be.

[cazzz1975]

but even stalin would have looked up to someone or admired someone who's methods got through to him in his youth. its not just god that people choose to look up to

[joko]

i am good because i believe its right, not through fear of god or because its been drilled into me with threats of damnation

i dont think anyone needs to be taught not to kill...i think when you get to a certain 'aware' age, people can generally know right and wrong


there are kids who are naturally good and have no clue about religion, and are not taught by anyone

as an example think of saffy and edina in abfab - i know its not real but that kind of situation does happen.

[Clanad]

But... the more profound question is why is there a recognition of "wrong" or "right"?

C.S. Lewis said it best:
"...Each man is at every moment subjected to several different sets of law but there is only one of these which he is free to disobey As a body, he is subjected to gravitation and cannot disobey it; As an organism, he is subjected to various biological laws which he cannot disobey any more than an animal can. That is, he cannot disobey those laws which he shares with other things; but the law which is peculiar to his human nature, the law he does not share with animals or vegetables or inorganic things, is the one he can disobey if he chooses.

This law was called the "Law of Nature"... because people thought that every one knew it by nature and did not need to be taught it.
Whenever you find a man who says he does not believe in a real Right and Wrong, you will find the same man going back on this a moment later. He may break his promise to you, but if you try breaking one to him he will be complaining 'It's not fair' before you can say Jack Robinson...
It seems, then, we are forced to believe in a real Right and Wrong. People may be sometimes mistaken about them, just as people sometimes get their sums wrong; but they are not a matter of mere taste and opinion any more than the multiplication table... If we do not believe in decent behaviour, why should we be so anxious to make excuses for not having behaved decently. The truth is, we believe in decency so much - we feel the Rule of Law pressing on us so - that we cannot bear to face the fact that we are breaking it, and consequently we try to shift the responsibility...
Consequently, this Rule of Right and Wrong, or Law of Human Nature, or whatever you call it, must somehow or other be a real thing – a thing that’s really there, not made up by ourselves..." (C.S. Lewis, "Mere Christianity")

Mr. Lewis goes on to say (I paraphrase) One cannot describe a crooked road unless he and the receiver of the description first have a notion of a straight road? Why does everyone know what a straight road is?

The questions are as valid today as in the 1930's and 1940's of Mr. Lewis time...

[jake-the-peg]

CS Lewis was taking liberties!

It is an assumption in what he writes that "right and wrong" are universal laws like the law of gravity.

He claims they are not made up by us - he may think that I strongly disagree

They are not Universal laws, they are human constructs.

How do I know? - Simple

Take away humans - gravity remains but right and wrong vanish.

Returning to the OP

Religous people frame their ethics in their religion they have trouble in seeing how people can have a non-religous ethical framework

But seeing as Clanad is quoting so shall I - Stephen Weinberg

Without religion good people would still do good things
Bad people would still do bad things.
But for good people to do bad things

That takes religion

I think he has a point

[joko]

i agree to a point jake...it is learnt, but i think we instinctively know if we do something and we see blood or make someone cry then even a small child knows its 'bad' and can 'sense' if their mother is in distress etc

although most of our behaviour is governed by society there is still and element of nature there i think


but really the point i make isnt about nature versus nurture but rather the notion that unless you believ in god and follow him you cannot know how to be a good person and know right from wrong...as though that learning has come only from god...nowhere else

[keyplus90]

What do I think? I think you have a pint but you do not know the reason behind your own question. So we will start slowly. What do you describe as a “good person”? What qualities a person has to have to be called good?

[sandyRoe]

A good person might do no harm to others and try to help those less fortunate than himself.
Decency in a society doesn't have to be god inspired. It simply helps society function.

[naomi24]

I know Atheists who are more 'Christian' than most Christians I've come across.

Keyplus, don't be rude. Either answer the question or ask your own questions somewhere else.

[bigbadmarty]

If he's had too many pints im not surprised he doesnt know the reason for his own question

[keyplus90]

Without religion good people may do something that they might believe to be good but they would not really know that what they did was really good or bad.

Bad people would still do bad things and just like the others they would not know why it is bad.

But when good people have done something bad then then instead of accepting that they have been bad they would blame religion.

Keyplus90, 12th October 2011

[naomi24]

^^ :o)

[RATTER15]

I think im a reasonably nice and good person. Why?

Well I actually enjoy it! I get great satisfaction from helping people, from brightening up someone's miserable day, by going the extra mile to do a good deed, this is why I do the job that I do. I certainly don't need any religion to tell me what is right or wrong, good or bad.

I work with two Gay guys, doesn't God want them both dead!!!

No, I don't need that kind of God in my life thank you.

[naomi24]

My last post was to Marty.

[bigbadmarty]

If a blind man shoots his dog does he not fall off the cliff ?