Did You Know ?

[KARL]

Quite by chance, I have heard that as of only last week most of the big UK supermarkets are stocking foods with a genetic modification background - and this is not shown on any labelling. The foods are produced through raising animals on genetically modified feed. In the rest of the European Union this is being actively prevented but apparently not in the UK. I have to say that this alarms me somewhat because of the way lots of knowledgeable people warn against the dangers of genetic modification of plantlife and animals. There is no shortage of material both in the media and on the internet, listing the potential (many say proven) hazards that arise. In other countries where genetically modified crops have been introduced, the farming community has expressed grave concerns about observed effects, both biological and financial - the crops are said to result in serious reduction in biodiversity as well as simply having distorting effects. This is on top of the fact that the varieties are trade marked, owned by (primarily American) industry, and when pollen (genes) crosses into other organisms the patent covers the resulting plants. If a farmer retains part of a crop for the next planting he is breaking the law unless he pays a royalty on what he himself has grown. This is not an encouraging scenario - unless you own the patent. For now the patent holder will be happy but what lies just a few years in the future - disappearance of the original varieties because they have been genetically contaminated or edged out of the market ? Why is there no discussion of the recent UK supermarket change ? Apparently Waitrose are the only large UK chain holding out against any GM tainting.

[FredPuli43]

How is the animal altered by eating food which is from genetically modified crops? Don't see that it is. What's the evidence of such an effect?

[maggiebee]

Don't think the majority of consumers give a sh**. Just so long as the price is right, nobody will read the labels.

[daffy654]

Do you have any proof for any of the accusations you make in your post?

[KARL]

I am not making accusations, merely referring to what the scientific community is debating. I am not a scientist, at least not in this field but I pay attention to such debates and note that other countries are sufficiently cautious to rule against risks, however real or not. The reaction shown in the first three answers to my post are interesting: Where did I say that there is evidence for animals being altered by GM feed - although it is not difficult to find those who do say there are various adverse effects on health ? But maggiebee is almost certainly entirely correct (trust you will vote YES in the referendum, maggie ?). If I am to state any proof then it is of what I said: There are lots of people afraid of GM products, UK supermarkets are now selling foods with a GM connection without labelling them as such. Both are exceedingly easy to "prove", just google it.

[FredPuli43]

You did not say it in terms, but what conclusion is to be drawn from your saying that animals are being fed genetically modified food? Either this statement is irrelevant or it suggests that you think that the animals suffer some harm which, given the tenor of your post, means some alteration to the detriment of the animal or, even, us when we eat it. That you did not explain why you bothered to mention it, what its relevance is, leaves anyone to provide a motive if they assume you don't write irrelevancies.

[Sharingan]

I assumed it was just a head's up for people who might have moral issues with that sort of thing or concerns and who might wish to explore it further. Thanks Karl.

[jim360]

GM doesn't bother me too much - even so it would be nice if there were more honesty from Supermarkets about what we ate. Here's hoping that there will be a change brought about due to Horse-gate, in favour of being open.

[Zacs-Master]

Is this your evidence?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2245686/Every-steak-UK-restaurants-raised-GM-feed-says-Cabinet-minister-charge-farming.html

[Zacs-Master]

some facts here
http://www.food.gov.uk/policy-advice/gm/gmanimal

[MadMen]

I'm more surprised that it's only of last week?

Unless you only buy organic and grass fed, then I would have thought the majority of the meat, fruit and vegetables we consume are GM anyway.

[Zacs-Master]

In the rest of the European Union this is being actively prevented

really?
http://www.gmo-compass.org/eng/grocery_shopping/processed_foods/153.animal_feed_genetic_engineering.html

[chrisgel]

I think the whole issue regarding GM foods boils down to the fact that nobody knows what long term effects they will have on the health of both people and animals. There has not been sufficient time between the development of GM crops and their release to the market for long term studies to have been made.
Another worrying aspect of this is that gigantic firms like Monsanto are patenting GM crops that they develop. These crops are identifiable and can and do spread to the wild.
For a crude example let us say that there are 2 adjacent farms, 1 using GM seeds and the other not. It is quite possible for cross fertilisation to occur and the farm that is not using GM crops ends up with it in their fields.
If this were to be discovered by Monsanto for example the farmer could either be told to destroy his crops as they contained patented material or he could be expected to pay royalties.

[KARL]

Fred, Sharingan's reaction is an echo of mine and so is jim's. Yours is (to me) oddly hostile although I have simply outlined that I feel those who urge caution may have a point and I have no counter argument against their suspicions/evidence. Oh, I'm sure it is nothing to worry about does not cut it for me. I don't have limitless faith in the altruism of big business or the infallability/honesty of regulators and/or governments.

I was unaware of the items you point to, Zacs, but over the past 24 hours or so I have done the odd googling myself and, amongst others, came up with these:

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ciencia/ciencia_geneticfood36.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%81rp%C3%A1d_Pusztai

I am not an expert on national and/or international regulations and/or laws and rely on what I come across. One thing that I find both confusing and worrying is how vested interest bodies can and do set up organisations purporting to be impartial and/or consumer based, with attendant internet sites supposedly disseminating facts when in reality it is a highly sophisticated publicity campaign to skew the facts. Powerful corporations actually buy creditable mouthpieces to promote their interests.

It may indeed go further back than last week, MadMen, although what I was told was that it was only as of last week. Again, who or how many people knew and has this matter been raised in the media or through other public channels that I have missed ?

All of this makes me quite uneasy, much more than North Korea or the things that currently create headlines, even more than the Boston and other bombings without at all meaning any disrespect toward the victims.

[Zacs-Master]

You should be more concerned about antibiotics.

[KARL]

Ah, chrisgel, precisely the sort of concerns I have seen raised and which cause my unease. I don't know the answers which in itself is not a problem for anyone but me. The fact that nobody seems to know the answers is worrying to me and I would have thought I was not the only one. Should anybody not worry ? This appears to me to be potentially the biggest disaster in the making of all time. People like Monsanto would presumably urge me all is fine.

[KARL]

Zacs, the antibiotics issue is also very worrying. But at least it is well and truly out in the open and clear - I am not aware of anyone urging calm or complacency there.

[Old_Geezer]

I am suspicious of cans of soup that admit they have modified starch, but give no further details. Started making my own soups.

I have no idea if feeding animals on modified foodstuffs has an affect when we use them as food, but since GM is unnecessary I believe it should be avoided.

If as you say, it is being allowed here and not in other European countries all the more reason not to trust the elites who get into authority here. But even if it were allowed elsewhere it still ought not be foisted on the public without their knowledge or ability to purchase alternatives. When I get the time (and enthusiasm) I'll look at the links posted.

[society]

All imported foods from Asia, especially China are GM.

[Midagma]

Here is a comparison of GM corn with non - GM (standard corn):

http://www.momsacrossamerica.com/stunning_corn_comparison_gmo_versus_non_gmo

Not only is the nutritional quality vastly different but the GM variety contains two deadly toxins.

Does what the animal eat get passed to us who eat the animal? Of course it does! Even ignoring independent scientific studies common sense tells you that one.

But it is not even the danger that is absurd here, it is the fact, as Karl so rightly pointed out that our supermarkets are not labeling these products. The only reason for that I can see, like in America, someone powerful is getting rich off of the spread of GM and an informed public would choose to avoid experimental "food".

There may come a day when GM is useful, we are from that day. The science is in it's infancy, on the back of huge political lobbying in the U.S. the biotech firms behind GM have grown incredibly wealthy and are now in a position to control the legislation governing their foods.

GM is a disaster waiting to happen. The industry actually uses bacteria and viruses as a delivery means to alter the genetic structure of their GM plants. The plants are designed to kill - to kill insects by producing their own pesticides in a lot of cases. The pesticide produced destroys the stomach lining of the attacking insect. Again, independent studies show that this toxin becomes active in human beings also and turn our stomachs into little cell bursting factories.

I think several things are correct in what has been mentioned so far. Karl is correct in being concerned. Someone else mentioned that people just do not care what they eat, I think that is correct, that is why such a huge experiment can be carried out on us. I challenge anyone to set aside a single day to get to the bottom of GM food truths and still think they are a good idea, or even of little consequence. Start by typing the name Jeffrey Smith into Google. I bet after an hour you wont want them coming into this country. But they are.