Listener Crossword 4082

[Zabadak]

This is a terrific technical challenge, with some fine and fair cluing. It made my head spin towards the end, and I suspect transcription into the final grid is going to be particularly prone to errors. Anyone got any suggestions for foolproof cross-checking?

[Ruthrobin]

Yes, daagg and cj - it was the same for me - last but one (as there was that final pangrammatic letter to insert) and an astonishing find.

[Clamzy]

Sabre can always be relied upon to offer some breathtaking clues as mentioned above, and he certainly likes his codes. Typo minefield?? Strangely enough this type of puzzle where the grid entries are not words force me to go the long mile and I'm less likely to make a transcription error.. He says:-)

[jamesah]

I've managed to solve the clues(without understanding all of them)and I think that I have got the seven words of the down pangram but when I put the 5-letter word in the correct place,the letter V codes as Z. Is that right? I assume that as this is a Sabre puzzle the final grid is made up of all proper words. If not then I don't see how to proceed further.

[dr b]

jamesah, the final grid is not proper words. patmark's post yesterday at about 14:00 should give all the guidance that you need.

[Mysterons]

You are correct jamesah, Vs in down clues are entered as Zs (it is the letters from the pangrams that are entered in the final grid)

[bellabee]

wow - finally cracked the two alphabets - now on to filling in the grid! thanks to patmark2, ruthrobin and borealis

[jamesah]

All done now, thanks for the assistance. I just wasn't confident enough to go further. This looked impossible at first but worked out nicely in the end. some fantastic clueing as usual from Sabre.

[Philoctetes]

I suppose the best double-check process would be to fill one grid with encoded across clues, then another with encoded down clues and see if they agree. I have a set of answers and just need to do that. But i agree with the less than enthusiastic responses from some earlier. Though the construction is very good, there was for me no sense of passing from impenetrable darkness to glorious light, just a solid mechanical process.

[starwalker]

Another puzzle where I had to break off after solving most of the clues. Probably as well, since at the time I only had 5 of the 7 pangram clues.
I still cannot believe how long it took me to complete the final step - possibly because I spent a long time coding in the wrong direction ! (Next time read the preamble more carefully.)

[Mysterons]

A shared experience starwalker, though I think we can be forgiven as the preamble isn't explicit on the direction of coding.

[AHearer]

On the final grid-fill, as I was solving I pencilled in the across clues in the upper left corners of their squares, the downs in the lower left corner, so that for the final fill I had pairs of letters to convert. I worked through, picking each pair (e.g. F and Z - can't remember whether that's a real example), cross-checking the coding, then working through the grid filling in each FZ, then on to the next unfilled pair, and so on. But I bet I still made an error somewhere.

[starwalker]

AHearer - after 3 transcription errors last year, I wouldn't take a bet from anyone.

[AHearer]

Only three? You should see my record!

[danielmason]

Still stuck finding the pangrams. Do either of them feature in Wikipedia's list? Or is there another list of pangrams somewhere?

[dr b]

danielmason: the pangrams do not make up a coherent sentence - they are just words strung together.

For the final grid fill, I set up a spreadsheet with the pangrams & the alphabet side by side and then used an Excel function (VLOOKUP) to do the encoding. I feel reasonably confident that this eliminated any errors, but since I don't submit the puzzle I guess it does not matter.

[Archie1962]

I used Excel and VLOOKUP too. As long as you use that and fully check both across and down clues you should get it right unless you are unlucky with an unchecked cell.

All filled in, but now I'm stuck on the unchecked letter in 19ac. There are two possibilities and I can't see the wordplay :(

[Deviant]

Archie1962, that was the last one I got too. I'm not particularly happy about the cluing since the definition and subsidiary indications are run together - I think it should have an extra ', ones' (or equivalent) before the 'who throw' to make sense. That should be sufficient to guide you to the wordplay, which isn't complicated once you realise the aforesaid.

Now to get back to working out the pangrams...

[jabone]

I think I understand what is going on, but am stuck on the pangrams as the extra word hints are getting me nowhere. Please could someone confirm that one of the four letter across components starts with a Z? Both the options seem unlikely because of the letters used; also I can't make either of them work! Thanks.

[midazolam]

Yes

[jabone]

Thanks midazolam. (I presume you are still on pat. leave posting at this time of day) - I belatedly add my congratulations to you both.