Listener Crossword 4082

[Zabadak]

This is a terrific technical challenge, with some fine and fair cluing. It made my head spin towards the end, and I suspect transcription into the final grid is going to be particularly prone to errors. Anyone got any suggestions for foolproof cross-checking?

[Archie1962]

Keep trying! If I can get there so can you all. I thought a couple of the extra words had fairly obvious synonyms that would be prime candidates for a pangram. That's a starting point, if you can find where to put them.

Excel also speeds things up a lot, if you have access and the skills. Type letters into the down pangram and they magically appear in the correct place in the across pangram.

[Cruncher]

Certainly speeded things up when I realised that one set of answers helped to generate letters for the other. Looked like a complete cold solve until that point. And also helped to read that I wasn't trying to produce some kind of sentence. Feel the preamble could have made that explicit especially as the Chambers' definition suggests otherwise. Some lovely cluing - 37ac gets my personal vote

[Cruncher]

re transcription, Zabadak, though I'm sure you're sorted by now. I worked off one grid with across letters in the top left corner and down letters in the bottom right, so each cross-checking square has two letters in it. Having sorted the pangrams - eventually! - I created a little table of three rows with the across letters in alphabetical order on the top row, their corresponding down matches on the second row, and pangram letter that corresponds to that combination on the bottom row. Fairly easy to spot and substitute. Gosh, this is a pretty sad post but been in bed all day so what else to do?!!

[freddy505]

i've got everything worked out except the unchecked square in 40 across - which must be simple but I'm just missing something? ( I see a possible hidden answer but what's the point of the wordplay?)

[freddy505]

I've finished everything except the unchecked square in 40 across -- there seems to be a hidden answer, but I don't get the wordplay!

[jabone]

If you read Chambers' definition of your answer v carefully it should all become clear (sounds a bit smug but I've still not done the pangrams).

[Mysterons]

Yes freddy, 40 is a container clue, and 'John' in the definition refers to an archaic use of the word you have found by John Bunyan.

[jabone]

I've just realised that I was interpreting 'headword' incorrectly, assuming that it meant a 'contents' word at the very top of the page (a device that has been used before). Am posting in case there is anyone else out there who has done this. Hurray! Now I can get somewhere.

[Zabadak]

For Cruncher - absolutely what I did. I think for a lot of puzzles where there are clashes, this is the sensible way of entry, so long as you remember which is across and which down! Like many, I did my tables in Excel, but didn't employ the "as if by magic" technique, being a number only user. When it came to the finished grid, I used a fresh one to keep my original entries clear, vital in that so far I've uncovered three transcription errors!

[cindy594]

Okay, I'm tearing my hair out here - not helped by only having 6 of the 7 extra words. Is the 7th in the clue for 19 across, as I don't get the wordplay and I'm stuck between two choices. But worse still, I can't seem to make a start on the pangrams at all, even after reading the hints here. PLEASE HELP!

[Ruthrobin]

No, Cindy, not there.

[Ruthrobin]

Cindy 594 - send me an email at [email protected] and perhaps I'll be able to nudge you in the right direction.

[cindy594]

Thanks Robin; I've had a Damascene moment and found the missing word (first clue I solved - I must have forgot to write it down - d'oh!). That spurred me on, and I finally cracked it. Still would like an explanation of 19 across though.

[Mysterons]

'Gossip' = tale

(people) 'who throw' = slingers

[IainGrace]

We have just recently embarked on this one. Haven't got the extra words yet. Are these the key to its solution, as, on the face of it, it appears otherwise to be a combination of cold solving and inspiration/luck to get the pangrams-or are we missing something?

[Mysterons]

The pangrams literally provide the key - the 7 'hints' mean that it's not total guesswork.