Society down the drain.

[Arthur55]

Why is society going down the drain. We now live in a time where being a criminal is fashionable. We now live in a time where almost everyone is a lawbreaker to some degree. We now live in a time where people choose which laws they can break and which laws they cannot.

We are not law breakers I here you cry. We will even give perfectly reasonable excuses why we break the law.

How many of you deny being criminals. How many of you speed or litter or do not own a tax disc or do not own a tv licence or download music off the net. How many of you have bought copied dvds or smoke in places you are not allowed. How many of you allow your dogs to foul in public and do not clean it up. The list is endless yet every one of the above is breaking the law and breaking the law makes you a criminal.

When did society go down the drain.

[robbieh]

people have always sped when given the opportunity of a vehicle able to do over the speed limit - no change. I'm sure people will probably have always avoided getting a tax disc, that is no new phenomena - no change. Tv license probably the same, though it is ludicrus that we should be forced to pay this fee without choice especially when so many would probably sacrifice paying so much for the "punishment" of not having the bbc. Bought copied dvds? or copied tapes of LPs etc? People have always copied what ever they can if its cheaper - no change. People have akways let their dogs foul in parks and not cleaned it up - no change. Theres no change, more opportunities to break laws is the only reason for the above. I'd hardly say that society has gone down the drain Mr V Meldrew?!?!?

[Tinker]

wow arthur, that smoking incident really put you in a bad mood! Life is not all that bad, we are free to do as we please (to some extent) and i would rather live in this soceity than under the harsh regime of many other countries. Yeah, maybe we are all a bit naughty when it comes to dropping litter or going over the speed limit a little, but there is a big difference between that and shooting your neighbour over religious issues. Personally, i think that us westerners should all count ourselves lucky for living in a society that does have some kind of positive system in place (hospitals, schools etc) and that we don't live in a society where you have to worry about whether a bomb will be dropped on your house or your wife/children kidnapped and murdered.

There are situations where society hasn't gone done the drain as well. Strangers DO help strangers and to be honest, people have always broken the law. Society isn't ALL bad, there are good people out there, you just have to open your eyes a bit wider to see them.

[Tweed]

You seem to be mistakenly equating the law with morality.

[Arthur55]

You seem to be mistakenly equating the law with morality.

 

After leaving the postoffice today my wife and I took our children across the road. We crossed on a pedestrian crossingand nearly got knocked down by a boy racer who chose to ignore the law regarding pedestrian crossings. He had a cigarette in one hand and his mobile phone pressed to his ear with the other. Again against the law. After the car had passed we watched as his passenger casually threw a can and a cigarette packet out of the window totally oblivious to everything around them. Littering also against the law. When we had calmed ourselves down we continued to our local street market where we found a man and a woman selling copied dvds and cds. Again illegal. I reported the couple selling illegal material to the manager of the market and was told to mind my own f**cking business whilst I held onto my 5 year old son. Morally wrong.

 

No tweed I am not mistakenly equating the law with morality. What gives anyone the right to pick and choose which laws to break.

[maximo]

I don't think the kind of behaviour you mention has got as much to do with breaking the law as with a lack of manners and respect for others. Littering or allowing your dog to foul in public places are not crimes, they are offenses, and I agree that they show a great lack of respect for people around you, but it is going a bit far to call them crimes. Nothing gives anybody the right to choose what law they want to break, but some always will anyway. That's the great thing about democracy in a free country. You are given the right to chose who you want to create the laws for you. You are given the choice to follow the rules or not, at your own risk. It is probably not the best system, but it is the system that has worked the best so far, in my opinion. You have the right to be angry, and to do your best to change the system, by way of vote. But you will not change the people. No matter what the rules are, there will be people to break them. Short of living in a scary police state, I don't see a way out of that.

[trilobite]

>> "and breaking the law makes you a criminal" <<

-

No Arthur, getting convicted makes me a criminal.

[Arthur55]

As I pointed out originally maximo some of you will even give perfectly reasonable excuses why you break the law. They are not crimes they are offences.

Definition of offence is a violation or breach of the law or any public wrong or crime.

 

A democracy gives you the choice not to follow the rules at your own risk. Bo**ocks does it. A democracy is built on a system of rules voted for by a majoprity of the public and when the people of a democracy choose not to adhere to some of the laws they are sticking there fingers up to democracy. However you paint it maximo a law breaker is a law breaker. You think that by justifying yourself you make it alright to break the laws you choose. How much software on your computer is copied. Illegal. You will still find a justification for it as everyone does. When society justifies the crimes it makes it is going down the drain.

 

Breaking the law does make you a criminial Trilobite. A criminal is someone who is guilty of a crime. As soon as you comit a crime even if you are the only one that knows about it you are guilty of that crime.

[ezapf]

Take a deep breath and slowly count to ten.

[Bangkok]

Arthur55, I assume you are putting yourself up as a paragon of virtue, who has never broken a law in your life.  Can you share with us how you achieved this so we can all improve? 

I would agree with trilobite, as there is basic premise of innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.  You may argue that you are morally a criminal merely by breaking the law, but as has been pointed out, morals and crimes are two different things, otherwise you could plead moral justification if you hit the man that swore at you.

[Greedyfly]

A lot longer ago than you think - just some people notice it has and some hasn't.   To be honest it has and it will and we can't really do anything more than change the way we are personally - can't change the world.

[Greedyfly]

You should maybe get a job with the government or something - All this angst about society might do the country some good!

[justpassing]

The time we live in has been created by the human race!
It has been created by the slow and continual erosion of respect and tolerance of others. 
And who is responsible for this? We are, so we really have no one else to blame but ourselves. 
Who should be responsible for teaching our children respect for others and their property, self-discipline, manners, respect for the law etc? The child�s parents and family. But each generation in recent times has fallen down on this responsibility, and along with the �do-gooders� who, in many ways, have given more �rights� to the perpetrator of crime than the victim, I believe it will only get worse.

 

[jenstar]

Wait, I don't own a tax disc, and that makes me a criminal? What a lousy country this is.

[smudge]

Well said justpassing.

[undercovers]

when was this perfect time when we all respected one another and lived in harmony and respected everyone and everything - when did society go down the drain you ask - its always been there - no society is perfect and never has been - remove the old rose tinted glasses and start living in the real world (oh and cancel you subscription to the daily mail its really not helping you)

[smudge]

Undercovers - I agree there has been & never will be a 'perfect time'. But as justpassing says, discipline should begin at home & parents are responsible for the upbringing of their children - no one else. He is also right in saying that do gooders are making it far to easy for the criminal to get away with so much these days.

[smudge]

Whoops, don't know what happened there - apologies for wasting space!

[ICEMANSAV]

Hypothetical question Arthur, if someone attacked your little boy or girl, would you attack them back to defend him/her? This would be classed as self defence right? No wrong, it is illegal. Would it be justified? Certainly. I think someone needs to unplug the cord from the back of your head.

[BigDogsWang]

I can understand and sympathise with Arthur�s frustrations. It can be argued that we have become a �walk on by� society, but who can blame us? People are scared to speak out, and we continue to live our lives like androids, choosing to ignore anti social behaviour because we don�t want to get involved through fear of reprisal. I used to react strongly to something I saw as wrongdoing, but over the years my wife has convinced me it�s not worth it, and now I have a son of my own, I value my own life too much to risk a knife in the back.

I also wholeheartedly agree with Smudge, in that most of society�s ills can be blamed on upbringing. Monkey see monkey do. The solution is that children need to be taught right from wrong at a very early age. If parents don�t do this or are morally corrupt themselves, what chance do we stand with their offspring? Yes I have broken the law on speeding, buying hookey DVD�s, etc, but I do not see these small �criminal� acts as contributions towards the decline of the nation. I will always show moral respect towards my fellow human beings, because of the way I was brought up.