Family & Relationships3 mins ago
Are we a nation of passive racists?
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Well we are according to ex footballer John Barnes, does he suggest that we burn all these classics, such as the Nazis did in the 30s?
These books were written in a different age and reflected the feelings of explorers, colonist etc when they ventured into strange lands and encountered the natives of these lands, some which were proved to be very strange, savage and leading much different lifestyles to their own.
If these peoples also had such authors, they would have most likely have written the same sort of things about the white man.
Well we are according to ex footballer John Barnes, does he suggest that we burn all these classics, such as the Nazis did in the 30s?
These books were written in a different age and reflected the feelings of explorers, colonist etc when they ventured into strange lands and encountered the natives of these lands, some which were proved to be very strange, savage and leading much different lifestyles to their own.
If these peoples also had such authors, they would have most likely have written the same sort of things about the white man.
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Whatever you want to think, where people have been brought up differently, race exists. Diversity exists. Yes those books are books of their time and must be read and understood as such.
This is very much like the bloke who was on Jeremy Vine on Radio two who asserted that all white people were racist and all of them had at some time had thoughts like "why should that black person be ahead of me in the supermarket queue"..which IMO is weird at best and prejudiced belief on his part at worst.
This is very much like the bloke who was on Jeremy Vine on Radio two who asserted that all white people were racist and all of them had at some time had thoughts like "why should that black person be ahead of me in the supermarket queue"..which IMO is weird at best and prejudiced belief on his part at worst.
rojash, ooh you are awful ,but I like you http://youtu.be/jUn0n9Yu7Vw
I read Kipling's just so stories to my kids - worth doing because they loved them and they're fabulous - but I did have to censure some of the bits with the most outrageous racism in them.
If they want to read them fully now their older and have the capability of understanding that these were written when attitudes were different that's great.
The problem arises when they're younger and can't understand that these were older ideas that aren't acceptable now.
Well not acceptable to 99.99% of us anyway
If they want to read them fully now their older and have the capability of understanding that these were written when attitudes were different that's great.
The problem arises when they're younger and can't understand that these were older ideas that aren't acceptable now.
Well not acceptable to 99.99% of us anyway
it's clear there's a modest amount of overt racism in Britain. It's hard to believe it isn't underpinned by more widespread passive racism, as he calls it. Stephen Lawrence was killed by racists; the police who handled the case are more likely to have been passive racists (an inquiry found "institutional racism", which probably amounts to the same thing).
Depends on too many variables.
Older Brotons are more racist than younger Britons (who are much more likely to work with and/or have non-white friends).
Your geographic location will also impact your level of racism.
With regard for the idea that inherent racism exists worldwide - yes, I don't doubt that for a second...but what is telling is how those differences manifest themselves....a CH4 documentary called 'Meet The Natives' took a group of tribesmen (can't remember from where) and brought them to Britain. Whilst they found many of our customs odd, they did not assume superiority over the British, which is a common component of European settlers when they colonise another territory...
For instance, when Europeans first started colonising Australia, they hunted Aborigines for sport (something that can't really be excused as 'cultural differences').
Older Brotons are more racist than younger Britons (who are much more likely to work with and/or have non-white friends).
Your geographic location will also impact your level of racism.
With regard for the idea that inherent racism exists worldwide - yes, I don't doubt that for a second...but what is telling is how those differences manifest themselves....a CH4 documentary called 'Meet The Natives' took a group of tribesmen (can't remember from where) and brought them to Britain. Whilst they found many of our customs odd, they did not assume superiority over the British, which is a common component of European settlers when they colonise another territory...
For instance, when Europeans first started colonising Australia, they hunted Aborigines for sport (something that can't really be excused as 'cultural differences').
"These books were written in a different age and reflected the feelings of explorers, colonist etc when they ventured into strange lands "
Yes, that's true. And it's overwhelmingly the case that those feelings were pretty racist. Victorian society as a whole was pretty racist by modern standards - I think it'd be pretty naive not to realise that. And you're also right on your latter point - the Chinese Empire's much earlier explorations also had an underlying racial hierarchy, with Chinese civilization on top.
All of that's pretty irrelevant however. What's clear to modern eyes is that having stories and discourses which propagate a racial hierarchy is not a good thing. Personally, I think there's a lot of unease in accepting how pervasively such a culture can get into society - which is probably the closest thing to 'passive racism' that you'll realistically find. If you find racism in this country, I think it's more often active than passive.
Yes, that's true. And it's overwhelmingly the case that those feelings were pretty racist. Victorian society as a whole was pretty racist by modern standards - I think it'd be pretty naive not to realise that. And you're also right on your latter point - the Chinese Empire's much earlier explorations also had an underlying racial hierarchy, with Chinese civilization on top.
All of that's pretty irrelevant however. What's clear to modern eyes is that having stories and discourses which propagate a racial hierarchy is not a good thing. Personally, I think there's a lot of unease in accepting how pervasively such a culture can get into society - which is probably the closest thing to 'passive racism' that you'll realistically find. If you find racism in this country, I think it's more often active than passive.
I have always been of the opinion that I am as good as anyone & everyone regardless of who they are is as good as me. Have a look at babies playing together ( Black, White, Asian,Oriental ) they have no idea that they are different
When or why do some of us think we are superior or inferior ? Remember we are all created equally.
When or why do some of us think we are superior or inferior ? Remember we are all created equally.
It is a generational thing.
In the days when these were written, indigenous members of population in our colonies (narrowly avoided saying "natives") were usually only seen in those places, and by British people sent there to, in effect, rule over them.
Anyone born post-WW2 will be more familiar with non-white faces, in addition to which most Commonwealth countries are now self-governing, and rightly take their place at the UN and other international fora. Many also came to Britain to be educated, and we came across polished cultured individuals.
Our experience is of comparatively small numbers of immigrants, and we can more readily accept them as equals, whereas in USA's Southern states, there were huge numbers of former slaves vying with the locals for work, and they have taken longer to assimilate these attitudes.
Barnes wasn't asking for revisions to texts, merely pointing out that prevalent attitudes of a bygone era are passed on if one reads them uncritically - but who with any education does? I suspect that those who are likely be influenced by them won't read them anyway.
In the days when these were written, indigenous members of population in our colonies (narrowly avoided saying "natives") were usually only seen in those places, and by British people sent there to, in effect, rule over them.
Anyone born post-WW2 will be more familiar with non-white faces, in addition to which most Commonwealth countries are now self-governing, and rightly take their place at the UN and other international fora. Many also came to Britain to be educated, and we came across polished cultured individuals.
Our experience is of comparatively small numbers of immigrants, and we can more readily accept them as equals, whereas in USA's Southern states, there were huge numbers of former slaves vying with the locals for work, and they have taken longer to assimilate these attitudes.
Barnes wasn't asking for revisions to texts, merely pointing out that prevalent attitudes of a bygone era are passed on if one reads them uncritically - but who with any education does? I suspect that those who are likely be influenced by them won't read them anyway.
Agree that authors wrote appropriately for the time they were writing but having seen some 'information' books about different cultures when we were having a sort out of books at school I can see why he is arguing that children learn racism from books; we had one that showed a black African child next to a mud hut, a child from a South American country living in a stilt house next to the Amazon and so on.
Obviously differences in ways of life exist and it is interesting to find out about them but they present a very narrow view of the country in question and alienate children from the ones presented in these information books as they seemingly have nothing in common with them.
Obviously differences in ways of life exist and it is interesting to find out about them but they present a very narrow view of the country in question and alienate children from the ones presented in these information books as they seemingly have nothing in common with them.
/// This is a man who had a banana skin thrown at him during a football match. ///
And this is a man who had a rocket fired at him during a football match.
http://
And this is a man who had a rocket fired at him during a football match.
http://
Its people like John Barnes who have stirred up racism in this country. Before you could read a book without thinking about colour or race. The black servants knew where they stood in the hierarchy and were content to do so. They talk about slave labour as if the blacks are the only race to experience it.
If you have ever worked on a production line at Fords you know what slave labour is. You cannot leave your production line even to have a pee and you work hard from the moment you enter the plant until its time to go home. They should get things in perspective.
If you have ever worked on a production line at Fords you know what slave labour is. You cannot leave your production line even to have a pee and you work hard from the moment you enter the plant until its time to go home. They should get things in perspective.
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