42 % Muslims In British Prison Population. Omg

[beezaneez]

just read about this, ok its in prison, who cares about them, well i do. if this is the growing trend inside a prison then what is our country as a whole going to be like in 10 years time. sharia law courts being introduced. jihadists are becoming more and more popular. they will make the troubles in belfast, northern ireland and uk look like a walk in the park. mass immigration , no jobs , NHS is in deep trouble. obamacare in the USA.

what is going to become of our country ? i really do fear for my childrens future. its scary !!! the world is changing so fast and not for the better.

im just waiting on some idiot replying that immigration is good for our country tut tut .

UKIP getting my next vote for sure !!!

[pixie373]

I agree it does need to change, Naomi. It'll be changed by individuals though. While we keep excusing them as being "indoctrinated" or "brainwashed", we are absolving the behaviour. It is deliberate and can be changed.

[ummmm]

Emmie - that sounds like a pretty normal Christian upbringing.

[beezaneez]

here pixie, just for you and all the other soft touches out there. have a read and wake up.

UK: Child Sex Slavery, Multiculturalism and Islam - Gatestone Institute
www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4226/uk-child-sex-slavery‎

[pixie373]

Doesn't work, beez. I'm hardly a soft touch. I seem to be alone in thinking adults need to take responsibility for their own actions.

[beezaneez]

pixie373
Mark as Best Answer
He's an evil person looking for an excuse. Religion didn't do it, a person did it.


the teachings in the " holy " quran done it !! here have another look and educate yourself -
The Quran:
Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief] is worse than killing...
but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)" The historical context of this passage is not defensive warfare, since Muhammad and his Muslims had just relocated to Medina and were not under attack by their Meccan adversaries. In fact, the verses urge offensive warfare, in that Muslims are to drive Meccans out of their own city (which they later did). The use of the word "persecution" by some Muslim translators is thus disingenuous (the actual Muslim words for persecution - "idtihad" - and oppression - a variation of "z-l-m" - do not appear in the verse). The actual Arabic comes from "fitna" which can mean disbelief, or the disorder that results from unbelief or temptation. Taken as a whole, the context makes clear that violence is being authorized until "religion is for Allah" - ie. unbelievers desist in their unbelief.

Quran (2:244) - "Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things."

Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not." Not only does this verse establish that violence can be virtuous, but it also contradicts the myth that fighting is intended only in self-defense, since the audience was obviously not under attack at the time. From the Hadith, we know that this verse was narrated at a time that Muhammad was actually trying to motivate his people into raiding merchant caravans for loot.

Quran (3:56) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."

Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority". This speaks directly of polytheists, yet it also includes Christians, since they believe in the Trinity (ie. what Muhammad incorrectly believed to be 'joining companions to Allah').

Quran (4:74) - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward." The martyrs of Islam are unlike the early Christians, led meekly to the slaughter. These Muslims are killed in battle, as they attempt to inflict death and destruction for the cause of Allah. Here is the theological basis for today's suicide bombers.

Quran (4:76) - "Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah…"

[naomi24]

Pixie, you’re not alone in thinking adults need to take responsibility for their own actions, but you make a mistake in assuming that, because they’re adults, their reasoning will be rational. When adults believe that a female child becomes a woman, and hence marriageable, the moment she hits puberty, or that FGM is essential, or that the word of an ancient book is absolute regardless of the errors it contains, then you hit a problem. People who marry their little girls off, or mutilate them, are taking responsibility for their own actions – Adebolajo took responsibility for his own actions – he didn’t deny he killed Lee Rigby – but his reasons for the slaughter fell a long way short of what, in a civilised society, is deemed acceptable. Religion brings with it irrationality – and that’s what society fails to acknowledge.

Got to go. Back later hopefully.

[sandyRoe]

Deo volente :-)

[pixie373]

I've read that, beez. And it hasn't persuaded me to go out and kill someone. Clearly it's character and wanting an excuse.

[pixie373]

I've not for one minute suggested all decisions are rational, Naomi. They are to the person concerned- because they want it to be.

[ludwig]

// Because brainwashing is changing a person's views against their will (look it up). Education- even if it's inaccurate, is not brainwashing //

Semantic nit-picking.

[Graham-W]

Beezaneez. Anyone can quote selectively from the Bible or Quran or whichever book you want and prove whatever you want. They all contradict themselves all over the place. Here's piece from the quran which reminds me very much of, "Thou shalt not kill" in a well known book.

sura Al-An'am.6:151

'Come, I will rehearse what Allah hath (really) prohibited you from: join not anything as equal as Him: be good to your parents; take not life, which Allah hath made sacred, except by way of justice and law: thus doth He command you, that ye may learn wisdom.'

[naomi24]

Pixie, //They are to the person concerned...//

...because the person concerned has been conditioned.



Graham, //...except by way of justice and law.....//

And that's the proverbial fly in the ... proverbial ...

[pixie373]

No, Ludwig. Accuracy in what we're discussing. There's a difference between education and brainwashing. That is the vital point. That you cannot condition /brainwash somebody into something they don't believe. A lot of the arguments here are misplaced on that point, which is why it's important.

[naomi24]

Pixie, things have moved on.

//Currently the concept of brainwashing is not used by most psychologists and social scientists, and the methods of persuasion and coercion used during the Korean War are not considered to be esoteric.

The word brainwashed is still informally used to describe someone who holds strong ideas that are implausible and are completely resistant to evidence, common sense, experience and logic. Especially when these ideas developed under external influence e.g. books, TV programs, other people or a religious organization. //

http://www.psychologistworld.com/influence_personality/brainwashing.php

Most of us accept what is generally understood by the term.

[pixie373]

Yes, i do know it's used that way and I'm sorry if I'm taking it too literally (Ludwig is always right, to be fair), but believing something illogical- I'm sure we all do at times and I'm struggling to work out how you change someone's view so dramatically - even from birth.
If we are actually talking about upbringing and education, that is a totally different conversation and explains even less how you can persuade someone they want to kill. How many hours of education would it take you to get from your mindset now, to wanting to kill a young soldier with a machete? And actually doing it? My guess would be- not in your lifetime. There has to be the will there already.

[naomi24]

Pixie, //There has to be the will there already.//

How odd then that this will you speak of doesn’t appear to be universal, but in the main confined to the followers of fundamentalist Islam.

[joko]

i think there needs to be a few more words than brainwashing to suit this issue - as clearly many have differing ideas as to what constitutes brainwashing

to me it means any form control of another persons thoughts and beliefs and will etc.

whereas some seem to think it only applies to the very deliberate 'cult' style of brainwashing - keeping people isolated, and drumming things into them until they believe, so much so that they commit attrocities and seemingly have no feelings of remorse, or doubt.

some would need a full on intervention in order to break free, and need some level of force, whereas others require various levels of interaction with more learned and worldly people in order to break out - they require conscious effort to break free and will eventually choose to dismiss it by their own choice

but all are various levels of brainwashing.

[joko]

pixie i do agree that some will use it as an excuse though, a way to abdicate all responsibilty "i was only following orders" etc

fortunately at least in this country, being brainwashed is no excuse for criminal activity and will not afford people any leniency

all brainwashing does is offer a reason for behaviour, not an excuse

[pixie373]

I think so joko. It isn't confined, Naomi, many people commit murder- they aren't all Muslims. It's just they have to give different reasons. The criminal tendencies come first- you are born with those - and then look for an outlet for them.

[emmie]

do you think that Adebaljo had criminal tendencies, or Adobawale,
hardly i would have thought, no one is born that way, but religion that is drummed into from a child, will surely give you a rather one track mind, until perhaps you decide for yourself that it isn't what you want out of life.
Adebalajo turned from his Christian upbringing, and got swept in the land of zealots, and Islam has more than its fair share. He killed Lee Rigby calling himself a soldier of Allah, brainwashing, can't see that as anything but