Church Marriage Vows

[agchristie]

Given the high failure rate of first marriages, are vows taken too lightly?

What would you like to see done differently either in the Marriage service to strengthen what the union means or perhaps you would like to see change in the way people are brought together to prevent relationships from being irretrievably broken down?

[LoisKnight]

I don't think its the vows that are the problem. I think that couples need to be given more advice on how to get on together.

[Zacs-Master]

Well said OG. Ag hasn't provided any statistical split between church marriage divorces / register office or licensed premises so it's a bit hard to be factual but the 'moral high ground' overtones are a bit antiquated for me.

[Prudie]

I'd wager that on the day many couples are not actually thinking about what they are vowing to, just repeating words from a sheet. I don't think anything in the service could be changed to strengthen a marriage. Back in the day when people had the vows of marriage instilled in them it caused a lot of people, particularly women, to endure years of unhappiness rather than break their vows and divorce.

[RATTER15]

When my Good lady Carakeel and I get Married it will most likely be in a tent surrounded by the people we want and lots of hounds, there will be no officialdom or religion! Will it be recognised by law? Who gives a rats a$$!! it will be recognised by me and my good lady!!

[agchristie]

OG - I understand your point that couples who live together unmarried are not less committed to each other than if they wed. From my experience, the amount of people who have made the 'piece of paper' comment to me showed their 'committment' by splitting up! Of course, I am not suggesting that this is always the case but some have sneered that reply to me as if denigrating marriage completely.

[Zacs-Master]

Ag, can you clarify what you mean by 'vows' and 'service'.

[askyourgran]

Quite true prudie, it wasn't the done thing back in the day to leave a marriage, communities were closer then, neighbours were much more neighbourly and mindful of each other. In the fifties (fyi Zacs) it was quite shocking for marriages to end - although no doubt they did. Not all wives were not treated kindly, domestic abuse took place in a lot of marriages, men definately ruled the roost then, and it was harder to escape the marriage either through lack of money and somewhere to go with children in tow.

[agchristie]

Zacs - the vows you recite in the church marriage service, not a Registry Office.

Love, comfort, honour, protect, forsaking all others etc.

[Zacs-Master]

Really? Well, blow me down wiv a fevver.

[Zacs-Master]

Thanks. I thought so. In 2010 Civil ceremonies accounted for 68 per cent of all marriages which took place, an increase from 64 per cent in 2000. So what is the high failure rate of the remainder?

[naomi24]

askyourgran, I can't see anything in any of that to recommend it.

[agchristie]

Zacs - there is no moral high ground by the way. The failure rate for first marriages is over 40%. My question was simply to explore possible ways to bring the failure rate down.

[Zacs-Master]

All marriages or just church ones?

[askyourgran]

To put the record straight, I'm glad I'm married with my 'bit of paper'. If I hadn't got that I don't think I would have lived with him for so long. It would have been tempting to move on at the first disagreement without that proper acknowledgement of comittment. It didn't really matter where we were married - under a greenwood tree or a church with a family of meerkats in attendence, to me my marriage was conducted in the way we wanted at the time. Some people can't hack it, and swap and change imo they shouldn't marry at all.

[agchristie]

All marriages (latest figures Dec '12)

[askyourgran]

naomi, that was my response to prudie's post, back in the day the late 40's and 50's. I can remember those days. Fortunately my parents had a good marriage my father was a kind gentle person and so was my mother, but there were others in the areas around us who were unhappy, with a lot of poor children. It was a sign of the times then. When I got married things were improving for women, and since womens lib even more.

[naomi24]

If people make a mistake and want to end a marriage, it’s no one else’s business. Whether or not I took my vows too lightly I would hate arbitrators, marriage guidance counsellors or representatives of well-meaning but misguided agencies to interfere in my personal life in an attempt to encourage me to continue to live in a marriage that I didn’t want to be in.

[jomifl]

People who think that a marriage certificate it just a piece of paper are deluding themselve and letting down their surviving spouse. If mrs jom and I aren't married when I die she would have no right to half of my occupational pension after my death continuing until she dies and she would have to pay tax on any bequests that I made to her. Which could mean that she would have to sell the house that we live in to pay the tax bill. If I haven't made a will my estate would go to my next of kin...think about the implications.

[agchristie]

Naomi, i get that completely. It's the cases where both partners are willing to find a workable path back to unity but are maybe let down by agencies through lack of real empathy, training and understanding of the issues they are grappling with.

[agchristie]

Jomifl - very good point underlining the security of lasting marriage.