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Is There Any Evidence That As Science Give Suitable Explanation For Natural Phenomena Encountered, The Lure Of Religion Will Gradually Diminish?
124 Answers
Church attendances are down in many western countries but is this the case for other religions?
Phenomena can be scientifically explained, proved & verified, without having to invoke explanations that involve the spiritual world. Invoking the name of God on complex issues (as in the dark ages) can hinder the seeking of explanations & solutions from a scientific & logical standpoint to pressing issues.
Phenomena can be scientifically explained, proved & verified, without having to invoke explanations that involve the spiritual world. Invoking the name of God on complex issues (as in the dark ages) can hinder the seeking of explanations & solutions from a scientific & logical standpoint to pressing issues.
Answers
Naomi...
10:23 Fri 11th Aug 2017
Perhaps the rise in scientific knowledge has generally driven the role of religion down, but when you say that "Phenomena can be scientifically explained, proved & verified, without having to invoke explanations that involve the spiritual world," you should perhaps also add "... although such explanations are rarely ruled out entirely."
Also, "Invoking the name of God on complex issues (as in the dark ages) can hinder the seeking of explanations & solutions from a scientific & logical standpoint," but then it can also help motivate the search in the first place. It depends on your perspective. Are you trying to seek the explanation that rules out "God", or are you merely trying to better understand how God did things? For a long time, it was the latter that drove people, and in large part scientific progress didn't really suffer (and yes, at this point people might throw Galileo out there but it wasn't really his scientific work that put the Church off what he said).
A scientific view of the world doesn't really "need" God, but doesn't really rule it out either. You can always make room for a God in explaining things. It's a crap way of explaining things, in my opinion, but people can do it all the same. Maybe it's just because people are determined to find a purpose in life.
And besides, there are always phenomena that scientists can't explain -- or, rather, can't explain *yet*, or can't explain decisively -- and that too leaves room for the spiritual, or religious, in people's lives. That's not going to change either; we'll never run out of things we don't know.
Also, "Invoking the name of God on complex issues (as in the dark ages) can hinder the seeking of explanations & solutions from a scientific & logical standpoint," but then it can also help motivate the search in the first place. It depends on your perspective. Are you trying to seek the explanation that rules out "God", or are you merely trying to better understand how God did things? For a long time, it was the latter that drove people, and in large part scientific progress didn't really suffer (and yes, at this point people might throw Galileo out there but it wasn't really his scientific work that put the Church off what he said).
A scientific view of the world doesn't really "need" God, but doesn't really rule it out either. You can always make room for a God in explaining things. It's a crap way of explaining things, in my opinion, but people can do it all the same. Maybe it's just because people are determined to find a purpose in life.
And besides, there are always phenomena that scientists can't explain -- or, rather, can't explain *yet*, or can't explain decisively -- and that too leaves room for the spiritual, or religious, in people's lives. That's not going to change either; we'll never run out of things we don't know.
Scoff if you like but I saw the big fella just the other day, complete with long white beard, flowing robes and a strange aura about him, in the back streets of Glasgow.
He was sidling along walls, jumping over low fences, hiding behind skips and the like but it wasn't really till he started doing the moonwalk that I thought to myself 'Aye, God still moves in mysterious ways'.
He was sidling along walls, jumping over low fences, hiding behind skips and the like but it wasn't really till he started doing the moonwalk that I thought to myself 'Aye, God still moves in mysterious ways'.
The born-again branch of militant Christianity responded
to the overwhelming scientific proof, by inventing a new version of itself, Young Earth creationism.
But this daft theory is as full of holes as its predecessor.
So, they are no further forward...is it any wonder that organised religion is losing ground, at least in the educated West ?
to the overwhelming scientific proof, by inventing a new version of itself, Young Earth creationism.
But this daft theory is as full of holes as its predecessor.
So, they are no further forward...is it any wonder that organised religion is losing ground, at least in the educated West ?
//Science has now proven, beyond all doubt, that what is described in the holy books can't have happened.//
Not so. Science has yet to prove there is no God and that’s the bottom line. Until that happens (an impossible prospect) people will continue to cling to belief, hope, and more to the point the thing that is often the most effective at perpetrating the myth that is religion – the fear of divine retribution. That said, education generally brings with it a modicum, at least, of rationality, and therefore in more liberated societies religion is diminishing to a degree.
Not so. Science has yet to prove there is no God and that’s the bottom line. Until that happens (an impossible prospect) people will continue to cling to belief, hope, and more to the point the thing that is often the most effective at perpetrating the myth that is religion – the fear of divine retribution. That said, education generally brings with it a modicum, at least, of rationality, and therefore in more liberated societies religion is diminishing to a degree.
jim360,
You stated:
1. Explanations involving the spiritual world “are rarely ruled out entirely."
Answer: Explanations involving spiritual world like ghosts can also be explained by electromagnetic traces of past events, wavelike quantum effect, possible space-time dimensions, etc. It depends of whether the emphasis is on spiritual or scientific explanations.
2. Are you trying to seek the explanation that rules out "God", or are you merely trying to better understand how God did things?
Answer: Assuming that there is God behind the phenomena studied is not really scientific.
3. A scientific view of the world doesn't really "need" God, but doesn't really rule it out either. You can always make room for a God in explaining things.
Answer: A scientific explanation do not involve God in the explanation.
4. And besides, there are always phenomena that scientists can't explain -- or, rather, can't explain *yet*, or can't explain decisively -- and that too leaves room for the spiritual, or religious, in people's lives.
Answer: Phenomena that cannot be explained do not necessary meant God should be assumed to be involved. IMO, assuming the involvement of God in the phenomena one cannot explain is a lazy way of thinking – preferably seeking out obscure spiritual explanations to that of seeking verifiable concrete knowledge.
You stated:
1. Explanations involving the spiritual world “are rarely ruled out entirely."
Answer: Explanations involving spiritual world like ghosts can also be explained by electromagnetic traces of past events, wavelike quantum effect, possible space-time dimensions, etc. It depends of whether the emphasis is on spiritual or scientific explanations.
2. Are you trying to seek the explanation that rules out "God", or are you merely trying to better understand how God did things?
Answer: Assuming that there is God behind the phenomena studied is not really scientific.
3. A scientific view of the world doesn't really "need" God, but doesn't really rule it out either. You can always make room for a God in explaining things.
Answer: A scientific explanation do not involve God in the explanation.
4. And besides, there are always phenomena that scientists can't explain -- or, rather, can't explain *yet*, or can't explain decisively -- and that too leaves room for the spiritual, or religious, in people's lives.
Answer: Phenomena that cannot be explained do not necessary meant God should be assumed to be involved. IMO, assuming the involvement of God in the phenomena one cannot explain is a lazy way of thinking – preferably seeking out obscure spiritual explanations to that of seeking verifiable concrete knowledge.
Naomi...science has poured enough cold water on the main-stream beliefs of Christianity, Judaism, and Islam, to effectively disprove all the main tenets of their structures. If you strip away all the fairy stories associated with those religions, there is nothing left.
Science doesn't have to prove that there is no God....its up to religions to prove that he exists. If I said that that the Moon is made of cheese, I would have to offer some evidence......the rest of the world wouldn't have to prove that it isn't.
All religions are the irrational belief in illogical circumstances, and all religions are invented....by man not by God.
Science doesn't have to prove that there is no God....its up to religions to prove that he exists. If I said that that the Moon is made of cheese, I would have to offer some evidence......the rest of the world wouldn't have to prove that it isn't.
All religions are the irrational belief in illogical circumstances, and all religions are invented....by man not by God.
mikey4444: "Science doesn't have to prove that there is no God....its up to religions to prove that he exists"
Very well said.
Religions do not always preach good will & good morals for fellow man. Many religion preach and emphasise the separateness of their religion and espouse ill-will towards those who are not followers or who rebelled (i.e. sinned) against their teachings.
How could a God who created (and in charge) of the Universe espouse such separateness and ill-will towards those who are not followers (or who rebelled) against the specific religious teachings?
Very well said.
Religions do not always preach good will & good morals for fellow man. Many religion preach and emphasise the separateness of their religion and espouse ill-will towards those who are not followers or who rebelled (i.e. sinned) against their teachings.
How could a God who created (and in charge) of the Universe espouse such separateness and ill-will towards those who are not followers (or who rebelled) against the specific religious teachings?
"1. Explanations involving the spiritual world “are rarely ruled out entirely."
Answer: Explanations involving spiritual world like ghosts can also be explained by electromagnetic traces of past events, wavelike quantum effect, possible space-time dimensions, etc. It depends of whether the emphasis is on spiritual or scientific explanations."
Sure, they *can* be, and I happen to think that something rather less exciting than the spiritual is going on. A lot can be just as well explained by people being just generally unreliable witnesses, the mind playing tricks on itself, etc. But that isn't "ruling it out entirely" is it?
That's maybe an impossible standard for scientists to meet, because by definition absolute certainty in Science is impossible, but there you are. As long as there is no certainty, then people can fill the remaining 0.0001% with whatever the heck they like, and usually will.
As for the rest of your post, I'm not saying that God is a part of scientific thinking, I'm just saying that it's always possible to shoehorn him in there anyway. I'm not going down the "Science is how, religion is why" route, but Naomi's right: "The simple fact is that until science categorically disproves the existence of God – which for obvious reasons is never going to happen - God will continue to exist in the minds of men."
Answer: Explanations involving spiritual world like ghosts can also be explained by electromagnetic traces of past events, wavelike quantum effect, possible space-time dimensions, etc. It depends of whether the emphasis is on spiritual or scientific explanations."
Sure, they *can* be, and I happen to think that something rather less exciting than the spiritual is going on. A lot can be just as well explained by people being just generally unreliable witnesses, the mind playing tricks on itself, etc. But that isn't "ruling it out entirely" is it?
That's maybe an impossible standard for scientists to meet, because by definition absolute certainty in Science is impossible, but there you are. As long as there is no certainty, then people can fill the remaining 0.0001% with whatever the heck they like, and usually will.
As for the rest of your post, I'm not saying that God is a part of scientific thinking, I'm just saying that it's always possible to shoehorn him in there anyway. I'm not going down the "Science is how, religion is why" route, but Naomi's right: "The simple fact is that until science categorically disproves the existence of God – which for obvious reasons is never going to happen - God will continue to exist in the minds of men."
Mikey, some lack the intellect but by no means all. Some incredibly intelligent minds refuse to grasp the concept of ‘don’t know’ simply because they crave explanation where there is none. In the search for why and how, we encounter stumbling blocks and therefore, even in light of all the evidence provided by science about the way the world works, in order to fill the gaps God is the only explanation remaining to those people.
jim360: "I'm just saying that it's always possible to shoehorn him [God] in there anyway”
1. One can, if they are so inclined, shoehorn God in scientific explanations (like God is behind evolution of th species by natural selectin) in their religious justifications - but that is part of religious explanations, not a scientific one.
2. Yes, sightings of paranormal anomalies can be due to unreliable witnesses, the mind playing tricks on itself, on phenomena that can be debunked as normal rather than paranormal. But is does not mean that all perceived paranormal events can be debunked as normal, rather than paranormal.
1. One can, if they are so inclined, shoehorn God in scientific explanations (like God is behind evolution of th species by natural selectin) in their religious justifications - but that is part of religious explanations, not a scientific one.
2. Yes, sightings of paranormal anomalies can be due to unreliable witnesses, the mind playing tricks on itself, on phenomena that can be debunked as normal rather than paranormal. But is does not mean that all perceived paranormal events can be debunked as normal, rather than paranormal.
naomi24: "The words ‘paranormal’ and ‘supernatural’ should be struck from our vocabulary"
Dictionary definition of paranormal is: "Beyond the range of normal experience or scientific explanation"
Paranormal/supernatural means what it says i.e. currently regarded as beyond normal experience or scientific explanation.
This is analogous to UFO - flying object that cannot be identified. ;-)
Dictionary definition of paranormal is: "Beyond the range of normal experience or scientific explanation"
Paranormal/supernatural means what it says i.e. currently regarded as beyond normal experience or scientific explanation.
This is analogous to UFO - flying object that cannot be identified. ;-)
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