The Manchester Bombing.

[Theland]

How sad that the service to commemorate the victims of the Maamchester Arena atrocity, still failed to call out the true cause of this evil.
The Quran.
We learn nothing.
We refuse to stand up strong, and prefer to sing songs about coming together.
The youngest victim, Saffi Roussos, 8, lives on in my heart as a representative of all of the victims, and I think we betray their memories by continuing to deny the evil truth staring us in the face.
Don't look back in anger? I do, and I hope many others will too.

[MallyJ]

The trouble is , in my mind, that people who are fanatical about their religion are very very worrying. The people who claim to be muslim but commit dreadful crimes are fanatics....there are plenty of people who are fanatical other religions who are potentially dangerous....for example those that show absolute hatred because others don't agree with them.

[Islay]

Naomi I have nothing to apologise for

[naomi24]

Islay, it just isn't there is it. Thought not. Oh well ....

[naomi24]

MallyJ, //The trouble is , in my mind, that people who are fanatical about their religion are very very worrying. //

The trouble is that within that particular religion there are rather a lot of them.

[Islay]

Well Naomi you are so good at lecturing people and telling them what to think, so why not try it with me!

[naomi24]

Islay, Why bother with a lost cause?

[andy-hughes]

I have opined many times, and I am not alone, that twisting a religious text into a message to you personally to do harm to other people is nothing new, nor is it confined to Islam by any means.

There are plenty of equally blood-thirsty references in the bible - something about, 'If they right eye offend thee, pluck it out ...'

It's there, in black and white, but most Christians don't actually take it literally.

The fault clearly lies not with the text, which is inanimate, but with the interpretation, and that is down to individuals, not the text, or the faith.

[Peter Pedant]

Oh dear we are all a bit off point

we stuck together and helped
it was overwhelming that so many children were needlessly killed - we ( in Manch) must move on without hate

Muslims qwere pretty appalled and pitched in as well

[naomi24]

andy-hughes, //The fault clearly lies not with the text, which is inanimate//

Forget inanimate – try immutable.

[douglas9401]

Au contraire my leetle herring whisperer, I have an original thought but it's not for these hallowed boards.

[-Talbot-]

Islay
To be honest I find your ravings as bad as the terrorist that carried out this awful attack.


Christ almighty.
I think theland a bit fruitloopy but that is just not on.

[david small]

Islay your comment to Theland crossed the line and diminished yourself. An apology is in order.

[vetuste_ennemi]

I know this will be difficult for many (and impossible for some) posters, but at least consider the possibility that, as the OP suggests, the bomber's motives were ideological and that that ideology was based on a particular understanding of the Koran and the example set by Islam's perfect man, Mohammed.

Now let's assume, as most of you probably do, and as everybody is telling us, that this understanding of Islam is a perversion of the Peaceful Religion. Then how did our friend Abedi arrive at this misunderstanding? The usual answer is to point vaguely at something out there on the internet. But before we look there why not start closer to home - like his local mosque?

Now we know a few things about this mosque: firstly that it's flavour is the ultra-conservative Salafist form of Islam, secondly that it preaches its contempt for Western civilisation quite openly (remember the guy on QT being shut-up by Dimbleby?), thirdly that it has a Libyan connection and fourthly that Abedi was not the only "radical" to have worshipped there.

Here's Wiki on the mosque:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Didsbury_Mosque

...and a bit of background on Salafism:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salafi_movement

Now let's consider his target - the Arianna Grande concert. It ought not be a surprise to most committed Islamophile that mainstream Islam dislikes much of the West's popular culture. How might even moderate Muslims react to this video, for instance (a pretty open-minded man like me in matters of sex finds this video and its lyrical felicities tacky, by the way)? How many moderate Muslims would let their daughters attend a concert by her?

Anyway, enjoy:

[-Talbot-]

I choose to believe there are more of the latter type than the former..



There are indeed, jack but there's still a major problem.
Even if the vast majority don't get involved in radical Islam the tiny minority that do can cause absolute carnage...I don't understand why more are not walking away from this despicable religion.

[Islay]

David Small and Talbot really?
Shame its not happening then isn't it.

[naomi24]

Islay, //Shame its not happening then isn't it. //

For you - yes.

[Baldric]

https://www.reasonwhy.es/sites/default/files/jurado-premios-eurobest-reasonwhy.es_.jpg

[andy-hughes]

// I don't understand why more are not walking away from this despicable religion. //

Because they are able to separate fanatics who twist their faith into something which it is not, for their own ends.

I don't imagine any Christians would abandon their Christianity because of the way the Westboro Baptist lot carry on.

I don't have a faith, but if I did, it would be a pretty slim and disposable faith if I allowed the actions of a few maniacs claiming to act in my faith, to turn me away from it.

We are all adult enough to know that people will find justifications for the most horrible behaviour, because that is human nature.

All we have to do is accept that they are a minority, and always will be.

[naomi24]

From Talbot, //Even if the vast majority don't get involved in radical Islam the tiny minority that do can cause absolute carnage//

And that tiny minority – let’s say just one percent of Muslims – equates to around 15 million people..

andy-hughes, //All we have to do is accept that they are a minority, and always will be.//

See above.

//I don't imagine any Christians would abandon their Christianity because of the way the Westboro Baptist lot carry on.//

The Westboro Baptist Church has about 50 members in total.

[andy-hughes]

The point is not about numbers, it's about faith, and the ability to continue in a faith even though some will and do pervert its message in order to do horrible things.

If the fanantics were winning in their perverted belief that the West must be destroyed, then it would be ashes by now.

The simple fact is that there are not, and are never ever going to be, enough terrorists to take over and make their ends met.

Because by definition, twisters of any belief system will never win, there are never enough of them, because they fly in the face of the inherent sense of goodness in the majority of humans on earth.