What Happened To Honour And Integrity?

[naomi24]

Lies, spin and double-speak seem to be the order of the day in more than one area of life, and moreover that dishonesty appears to be not only accepted, but welcomed, encouraged and exacerbated by many. What happened to the once cherished philosophy of honour and integrity?

[pixie374]

//It depends a great deal on what the result is going to be//

As we suspected... democracy depends on giving the right answer! At least some people are happy not to be accused of having integrity :-).

[bainbrig]

I've watched decency decline since I were't lad back in 50s, just ebbing away... until Whoosh, the Thatcher Years, when she (Naomi's heroine, I do believe), swept away the barriers to Self and Self-Interest, proclaiming 'Freedom!'

And then the floodgates opened, and with Freedom (to screw whosoever you please) came Freedom to be as nasty as you wish.

Yes, there are some decent people left - I know some, (contrary to Doctrine around here) including Poles, Muslims, other varieties of foreigner and of differing beliefs - but as I said the other day when the site was banging on about the lack of police response etc., YOU voted these *** in over decades! So if decency has fled out of the window, go look in a mirror if you want to see a culprit.

BB

[Zacs-Master]

Who did you vote for Bainbrig?

[hereIam]

ZM - None whatsoever.
spath - You get over it, minorities always win.

[naomi24]

Well here’s a fine, upstanding bunch of opponents. One who doesn’t want links unless they’re links that suit him, one whose repetitive ramblings make little sense and wonders why they receive no response, one who adds nothing whatsoever to discussion but is nevertheless bent on trolling the messenger from thread to thread, one who convinces only himself when he says that democracy doesn’t mean what we think it means, and one who makes it up as he goes along. (Mrs Thatcher, my heroine? Where on earth do you get it from Bainbrig?). Honour and integrity does indeed appear to be at a premium.

[Zacs-Master]

https://ibb.co/q7srVQB

[shoota]

Defenestrated.
Went out of the window along with the concept of 'live and let live'.
'You can't be/think/do that because I don't like it.'
Tribalism and people separating themselves into “us” and “them” groups....
That's what happened to honour and integrity

[sevenOP]

" One who doesn’t want links unless they’re links that suit him,..."

I see as per usual you prefer implicit to explicit remarks, I myself prefer being more direct and try to answer questions in an open manner.

So I ask again naomi, is ' What Happened To Honour And Integrity?' only about Brexit how politicians handled Brexit, muslim sex offenders and 'most muslims' ?

[Spicerack]

Lot of truth in that, shoota. imo.

[jim360]

Pixie: " //It depends a great deal on what the result is going to be//

As we suspected... democracy depends on giving the right answer! At least some people are happy not to be accused of having integrity :-). "

Come on, Pixie, really? You know full well that is not what I'm saying. Not even remotely close.

[jim360]

As to Naomi's dismissal:

// one who convinces only himself when he says that democracy doesn’t mean what we think it means //

There are plenty of historical examples, going back as far as Athens, which is after all where Democracy was invented, of votes being reversed over time. It's not my fault you don't get that democracy requires that the past is not the master of the present. But that's how it works, nevertheless.

[naomi24]

sevenOP, //I ask again naomi, is ' What Happened To Honour And Integrity?' only about Brexit how politicians handled Brexit, muslim sex offenders and 'most muslims' ?//

On this occasion, yes – but then this is my question. If you would like to extend it to other areas it’s your prerogative to start a new thread.

Jim, //There are plenty of historical examples, going back as far as Athens, which is after all where Democracy was invented, of votes being reversed over time. It's not my fault you don't get that democracy requires that the past is not the master of the present. But that's how it works, nevertheless.//

No Jim, that is not how it works. Furthermore, although appealing to ancient history might make you feel better, examples of equally shameful attitudes don’t make it right.

[Calicogirl]

You didn't word your initial question as being only about Brexit, politics and Muslims but as soon as I read through the thread and realised it was a thinly veiled pop at Remainers seasoned with the usual heaped tablespoon of Muslim bashing I lost all interest in answering. It is your question but you've contrived to make it predictable, narrow and boring, why not broaden it's reach a little and let something interesting and new in?

[naomi24]

Calicogirl, if you want it broadened the question feel free to start a new thread. In the meantime feel free to maintain your lack of interest in replying to this one.

[Calicogirl]

Fair enough I will, but why not be honourable and show integrity in the way you worded your OP instead of the way you have done it. It was pretty obvious that you were always going to turn it into a pet peeve fest but didn't want to give that impression initially just twist it to your wants as you went. Quite comical really.

[naomi24]

Calicogirl, Don't judge everyone by your own standards. My OP is genuine. Off you go.

[jim360]

There's nothing shameful about challenging a decision that you feel to have been mistaken, either by its nature or because subsequent events have shown it to be so.

[Peter Pedant]

// An excellent example of the sort of dishonestly I'm talking about. //

well my dear you have a choice
either you say it is pre-Trump in which case it is not true to say it is new - it has always been there,
or
you say it is post-trump where at least he could be a cause

Oh, and I say Trump is a plonker because I believe he is a plonker then it is not dishonest - it may be wrong
( there is of course a difference )

// What happened to the once cherished philosophy of honour and integrity?// - I would change to

What happened to the once cherished virtues of honour and integrity? - and as Bo Jo - a famously honourable man of integrity would say - cripes, yeah, not wishing to sound too cacophonous , but what the Greeks called 'aretee' is still there

[naomi24]

Jim, there’s plenty shameful about thwarting democracy - the fundamental cornerstone of our society.

[jim360]

Even if you accept Trump as part of the picture, then he's a symptom more than a cause. But he very much *is* part of the picture, and it's telling that you'd rather a separate thread be started to debate Trump's honour and integrity, or lack thereof.

But, leaving Trump aside. If there has been a slip in standards then it's because we've reached a point in the debate where people who disagree with you (you in general, mind) must by definition lack honour and integrity.