Piece Of The Manger?

[Atheist]

A so-called authentic piece of the manger where Jesus was tucked up has been sent to Jerusalem, to the delight of some christians. How could a piece of some unknown kid's cot have been tucked away in the expectation that in 2000 years he might become famous? Is there no end to the gullibility of religious believers?

[naomi24]

^That to Mamyalynne.

[naomi24]

Danny, it's ludicrous.

[Theland]

It could be a bit of my teapot stand that I made in school, it went missing, and my Mum used to worship it.

[Mamyalynne]

I have never lied re this type of thing and would disapprove of anyone doing so, especially to children - if adults wish to believe what the Religious historians have written about this for centuries that is up to them.

Not a fan of the weeping and wailing either.

[naomi24]

Mamyalynne, I wonder what you would tell children then? The only ‘Religious historians’ who have ever written about this nonsense in a positive way are those who have made efforts to promote the Catholic church - and they have been eager to do that in any way possible - but I’ve no doubt you know that. As for your claim that you are kind (debateable in some instances), that implies that the rest of us aren’t. Incidentally blowing your own trumpet is no recommendation.

[retrocop]

Spot on naomi.

[hereIam]

Seconded.

[Mamyalynne]

I have told my children that certain relics and stories are 'reputed' to be (whatever) , as with Holy Water, The Host and the Wine are representative.

Then we may discuss other topics as they arise.

I had no intention of suggesting others were unkind at all, it's just that there often seems much ridicule and pointing of sharp sticks.

However as my Dad once said to me "If you don't blow your own trumpet, someone will come along and **** in it"

Off for dins.

[benhilton]

Atheist your question makes it seem as though a piece of wood has suddenly turned up after 2000 years . This is not the case .
This is what I managed to find about it in the Catholic Encyclopedia :
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04488c.htm
The find dates back to the voyage of Helena to the Holy Land at the beginning of the 4th century where she uncovered a number of holy sites .
Whether these sites are genuine is debatable.
It is not beyond possibility that after Jesus died and the Christian movement was building up , Mary ( who would be around 54 yrs old or so ) took the early church leaders to Bethlehem and showed them the grotto where Jesus was born . The early Christians could then have preserved this site for 300 yrs or so until Helena arrived .
Helena , armed with lots of Constantine's money then built a chapel over the grotto and the site was now under the protection of Rome .
Pope Theodore moved the crib to Rome in the 600's where it has become an object of veneration .
The wood was tested in 1893 and found to be of a type of sycamore which is present in the Holy Land .
Whether it's genuine is debatable , but perhaps the believers are not as gullible as you think
I hope this helps .

[hereIam]

I'm very kind too, especially to animals. Speaking of which, time to walk my little dog brrrrrrrrrrrr, it's freezing out there.

[naomi24]

Mamyalynne, I can think of sounder advice your dad could have given you. Enjoy your dinner.

[naomi24]

//The find dates back to the voyage of Helena to the Holy Land at the beginning of the 4th century //

Indeed - like so many other things. Constantine's mother was smarter than Miss Marple!

[benhilton]

Naomi , indeed !
Now how easily would the exceptionally smart Helena have been fooled by the locals ?

[naomi24]

Being the devout woman she was (allegedly) - and going by the number of well-educated people in this modern day and age so eager to fall for it all - probably very easily.

[Bobbisox1]

How can it be real? I went to Bethlehem and went down in the bowels of the earth to see the manger and the doll - like baby, I did, I really did and there it was , the manger, :0)

[naomi24]

:o)

[douglas9401]

An easy mistake for the unwary tourist to make, traipsing into the bowels of the Earth to see a holey site.

It's all a bit more stable now. :-)

[Bobbisox1]

It ruined my childhood stories , Bethlehem was the pits with graffiti everywhere

[Theland]

Naomi - What advice did your Dad give you?
Did he mention sensitivity by any chance?

[Atheist]

I think that it is difficult to believe that anyone would save a bit of wood from some unknown baby's cradle just in case that baby became famous later as the so-called son of god. It seems incredible to me. Surely it's more likely that this was just part of the racket that grew up later on, when bits of cross etc were touted around to make money. The catholic church has got a nerve endorsing this sort of stuff. It may be the case that some people find it comforting, but that doesn't make it true. Mamy, I think it's better to tell people the truth rather than tell them fairy stories to make them feel better,