How Would You Handle This Scenario.

[retrocop]

This is a true event that happened in the 70s.
You are a Constable walking your beat when you are directed by your station officer via telephone to a nearby building site where the foreman has reported a disturbance. You have no radio in those days.
On attending the site gate you are met by the foreman who informs you that two of his contractors have discovered a subbie has possession of a quantity of their tools which went missing a few weeks previously when the subbie was last on site.
In case anyone is unaware it is a heinous crime within the building trade to steal the tools of a man's trade. Even bailiffs are forbidden by law to confiscate a man's chattels or tools of a artisans trade.
You inform the foreman you will take a short walk around the block and return in five minutes.
On returning you are directed and accompanied by the foreman to the roof of the multi storey car park under construction. There are three men. Two looking a little sheepish on your arrival and one slightly bruised with a nose bleed.
We have an allegation of theft and an obvious assault in this scenario.
You do not have all day or the luxury of sitting by your computer to make your decision and ponder your course of action.
How would you deal with it? Feel free to ask pertinent questions relating to the scenario and I will tell how it was dealt with later

[retrocop]

//Is it pertinent to ask what colour the 3 men were .?//
Not really but since you ask all four men were white Irish and has no revelence.

[andy-hughes]

retrocop - // Your childish nonsense is getting extremely boorish. You keep trying to deliberately disrupt this thread don't you. What sort of a mod are you supposed to be? //

One with a sense of humour who thinks playing Dixon Of Dock Green with strangers is a silly way to pass the time.

I'll leave you to your nonsense now, good luck finding those 'adjudicators'!!

[anneasquith]

I thought it very relevant, but Hey Ho .

[naomi24]

why?

[Untitled]

i like the pub fight anecdote retrocop... the kind of wisdom that can only be gleaned from experience

i am a big old lefty as many of you know but i do think the old policing model was more effective than the reactive one we now have

[Gromit]

I assume the walk around the block was to allow the victims to attack the pilferer and get their tools back.
And the copper saw nothing except a man with a nose bleed, and said copper handed him a handkerchief.
And everyone went home happy with how the situation was speedily resolved.

[retrocop]

Untitled
I agree. The old methods were not always textbook but much more effective and left ,usually, the public with a satisfactory result

[rowanwitch]

In London the police would have taken any tools they fancied and told them to be quiet if they knew what was good for them.

[choux]

retro, this reminds me of the wisdom of Soloman! Taking 5 minutes out means you let the 3 who are aggrieved have time to re-consider their present positions. Presumably the 2 who had tools stolen by the 3rd person have recovered their belongings. The 3rd person has got a bloodied nose (no doubt having tripped over something on the floor and hit the deck) but no long-lasting injury. All in all the status quo has been achieved and all 3 men can continue their lives and livelihoods. The brief disturbance of the peace was when the injured man swore at the other 2 for having left tools laying around and briefly squared up to them. When you return after your little walk there is nothing for you to do other than give all 3 the look that says "I know what you have done - do it again and it will not end so happily!" Just good common sense imo :)

[david small]

I would have told the two to repossess their tools and to have a gentle conversation with the borrower. Also that he was to ask for permission from his mother should he wish lend them again.

[retrocop]

Pretty much spot on choux. Well done. First of all you establish if the injured required hospital treatment. Cover your tracks first in case he later falls into a coma. you ask the bloodied nose if he wants to attend the station and make a statement about the assault. His reply was ‘No assault officer. I slipped on that patch of oil over there.”
Oil was present on the floor from a leaking diesel generator. Both contractors were asked if they both wanted to press charges for theft of there tools.” No officer we got them back” Foreman sighed some visible relief. I informed all four that a report would be made about an accident on industrial premises and the Factory Inspector may pay a visit so the floor should be cleaned. Not exactly a text book action but the foremen knew if I had effected three arrests then he would lose two men in the cells for two days lost work The foreman was relieved, two men had their tools back and were able to continue without loss of pay and the thief got summary justice and was banned from returning to the site. Everyone was happy with the outcome.
The station officer gave a wry smile as he knew what had happened when he read the report.
That was how policing done for the most part.
Common sense , sound judgement thinking on your feet and a certain amount of discretion and latitude. You attended, summed up the situation made a call and left no leaving all concerned happy.

Well done choux. You were almost spot on and others were close.
I am happy to field any criticism as to how the old system worked.

[choux]

retro, surely only a fool would criticise the application of the law-keeping as set out in your post? I often watch the police programmes on Channel 5. The number of officers sent to scenes, the time officers spend getting prisoners booked-in, tested for drinking/drug-taking, the futile arguments by those under arrest to avoid prosecution etc., etc., etc. The times no charges follow a night in the cells. Makes me wonder why anyone would want to join the police to be abused and assaulted on a regular basis.

If only we could turn back the clock to the bobby-on-the-beat style of policing. I know that crimes have moved on a pace, when did you see Samurai swords, BB guns (at best) and huge quantities of drugs in the hands of villains in the 70's? Whatever crimes are committed thank heavens for the major part of our police force!

[retrocop]

:-) true choux. Certainly different times

[Peter Pedant]

I think the decisive action is to go walkies for 5 mins

I am not sure why people are so abusive to you Retro - including a mod who really Should Know Better. - you set aproblem and if the intellects of AB dont wish to play then they shouldnt post

so at the time - someone slipped over
now - - ask if they wish to proceed, considering there has been restitution and it is a bind for all concerned.

I mean it is not as tho someone has been raped is it?

[Peter Pedant]

hi chowks
huge quantities of drugs in the hands of villains in the 70's?

er no drugs in the seventies - - righto ! Policing seemed to lose its way in the 70s. Lots of traffic cops handing out summonses which was fun for everyone. I remember telling one afro caribbean worker to plead guilty ( to affray I think) because there was absolutely no possibility that his side wd be believed. Incredz, it made such a big impression on me ( rather than shrugging, reflecting that this was life and returning to my work)

[Ellipsis]

How would I have handled it?

Well, by the book of course. Why not?

[retrocop]

Well that’s fair enough Ellipsis. I would of thought ensuring the victim didn’t require hospitalisation for his non serious wounds was a priority and the option to either press charges and losing two days work or leaving the situation where all were satisfied after dealing it in a slightly unorthodox manner. I have adopted the attitude that rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men . Common sense is a better option in most scenarios and it is a better option imo.

[douglas9401]

Evenin' all, etc.

[Ellipsis]

So, you did not go by the book, because you knew better. Is that a fair description?

[retrocop]

No. I used discretion and common sense which I believed at the time to be a better option for all concerned .It was a win win situation for all. Why do you think the action was so wrong when I was told there was no apparent assault by the person who gave me an explanation for his condition. He was not a victim. The other two were just happy to get their tools returned. If no one wished to press charges what grounds to you think I have to effect an arrest. I would be wasting my time and no one would write a witness statement under caution once taken to the station. The station would just have to make an entry in 'The persons brought to the Station and not charged Book' and release them. A waste of time.