A Baby's Human Rights

[naomi24]

Both Jews and Muslims lop bits off their young male children, not for medical reasons, but because their religions demand it, so a hypothetical question. If a case were brought before the European Court of Human Rights claiming that this practice is in violation of a human being's right to decide what happens to his body, what do you think the outcome would be?

[sith123]

im not an expert...ask a scholar.

[naomi24]

Sith, I assure you I've spoken to 'scholars', but as much as they try to worm their way around the glaring inaccuracies contained within the Koran - just as you and most Muslims do - it doesn't detract from the fact that your book is wrong.

[jomifl]

Sith.. you need a reality check here, I will make this very simple, what you believe does not alter facts. Many people have proven this over the course of history. Many people have had sad painful and pointless lives and deaths because they could not accept this. Put your effort into helping your fellow man have better lives now. Leave the hereafter if it exists to your god. If he is what you claim then you will have nothing to worry about.

[naomi24]

Jom, I like that. Well said. :o)

[jomifl]

Thanks Naomi.. I have to say that I admire your patience...

[joko]

if as its claimed its down to 'dirt getting stuck' - then teach the kids how to clean it properly...

we dont knock all our teeth out - because 'dirt gets stuck' in them - we simply clean them

we dont chop our ears and noses off because ' dirt gets stuck' - we just clean them...

regarding 'problems down below' ... we can have a 'problem' with any area of out body, arms, legs, fingers, organs, etc etc ...we dont lop all them off 'just to be on the safe side' - just to make sure there are no problems in the future - we lop them off as a LAST RESORT

chopping bits off should ONLY be done when there is no other option - such as pain and suffering to the person if it is left.

there is simply NO VALID REASON for this, and stating the cases of a few people who have had medical problems, as though thats proof thats it necessary, does not cover it in the slightest

[naomi24]

Joko, that sounds like common sense to me.

Jom, thanks. Willful dishonesty, of any description, is the only thing that tries my patience. Where Sith is concerned that does not appear to be the case. I like Sith, I think he is a genuinely nice fellow, but I feel so sorry that he has fallen foul of those who would mislead him - hence my continuing patience. :o)

[RATTER15]

I agree with you Naomi, I think Sith is different to the others, thats why i kindly suggested to him that her drops the religion threads and join in a normal conversation, however I don't have your patience Naomi, im usually a very patient man, I wish you luck, I think he is a young lad and has been corrupted by Muslims, they really are good at that.

[naomi24]

I suggested something similar Ratter. He doesn't seem to know much about his religion, but nevertheless, I think any efforts to enlighten him will be in vain.

[sith123]

yes, naomi, ratter and jomifl, if you look at my profile you can see that i have contributed to a number of threads, not just religious, ive even asked non religious questions so i dont know where that came from.

also you said i was corrupted. i am not. no one forced me to convert or made me, i had no reason to, none of my family are muslim. i chose of my own accord.

i am helping to contribute to helping fellow man, im doing that by being a muslim and just giving my views. of course, on answerbank what you can do are limited. outside of here i do not go around preaching and i dont even wear islamic clothes. i look like a normal person. i am not preaching here either, just explaining my views. :)

[boxtops]

To me, that's fair enough, sith.

[sith123]

thank you boxtops :)

[boxtops]

I hope that's what we all do, sith - I often add IMO to indicate that it's MY view!

[sith123]

thank you, i might try using that, it will save me a lot of trouble lol.

[RATTER15]

Sith, corrupted does not mean you were forced it means you were persuaded/seduced.

>>i am helping to contribute to helping fellow man, im doing that by being a muslim and just giving my views.<<

But you are not helping anybody by telling us all your version of what is in the Koran, we mostly know what is in the Koran and we choose not to believe it, you are helping nobody by going over the same stuff trying to convince us that the lies and myths in this book are in any way based on facts.

Naomi has proved you wrong on nearly every front, your book is clearly based on absolute nonsense. Saying all that, you are of course entitled to give your opinion and views along with the non believers.

[naomi24]

Sith, as Ratter says, corrupted doesn't mean you were forced - but you have been persuaded to believe things that are demonstrably untrue. I don't 'choose' not to believe it - I can't possibly believe it because it is false, and I have given you examples to prove that beyond doubt. I just don't understand why people who know something is false lie to themselves and pretend otherwise - and you're not the only one who does it. People of all religions do it. I've said many times that it's just wishful thinking - but what rational person would wish the concept of hell to be a reality? Better to reclaim your ability to think for yourself and face facts. The book is wrong about so many things, and therefore the rest of it must be treated with a good deal of scepticism.

[sith123]

ratter, i am not trying to convince you, i am sharing my opinions, if you think that i am trying to convince and convert you than that is your problem. You cant say i am corrupted. you have never met me, so you cant say that over answerbank. i choose what i want to believe in, like you choose what you want to believe in.

[naomi24]

Sith, as I said, for a rational person there is no choice to be made between accepting verifiable fact and believing demonstrable inaccuracies.

[sith123]

ah, that word again...rational, so just because you do not believe in god you are rational, believe me, rational does not only refer to religion. just because i am religious i am not rational? as if.

[mibn2cweus]

This ain't exactly rocket science. Ritual circumcision provides unambiguous testimony of the prerequisite mental castration of its willing participants.

The unfortunate thing about those who choose circumcision for themselves for religious 'reasons' is that they stop at the foreskin . . . but not at inflicting the same barbarism on their innocent offspring.

And for those still unable to wrap their heads around the issue, perhaps you better sing along with me -

♫ "We don't need no circumcision . . . Hey preacher, leave those kids alone." ♪