being good through desire or fear...

[joko]

does being good only because your religion tells you to because you wont get to heaven etc if you dont - and therefore is through fear rather than actually wanting to be good - count as genuine goodness...?

are some religious people therefore not 'truly' good in the heart and soul, seeing as theyre just following orders...?

so are the people who are not at all religious yet good of heart and soul because they want to be, the real saints iin the world?

obviously i mean SOME, not all...

[craft1948]

Come on naomi..................it was a Gü.

[sandyRoe]

Maybe you misunderstood? Give you a plum duff was an offer of a Christmas gift rather than a threat.
That was a rather nice offer. ;-)

[naomi24]

See! She's bringing in the heavy mob! :o)

[craft1948]

That's the trouble with you atheists..............always whinging!

[RATTER15]

Craft, have I ever tried to sway you? xx :)

Gu? those tiny little things in a pot, I would need six just to start, not worth pulling the lid off!

[RATTER15]

Gu... the work of the Devil with all those calories, I think there are more calories than pudding in one of them.

[naomi24]

Whinging? Yea, and rightly so! A Gu in the kisser ain't funny. I have custard pies you know! And they're BIG - so wotchit!!

Got to go to bed guys. Night night. Much love. x

[craft1948]

Night Naomi...........God bless!!

[sandyRoe]

I second that, Craft. Naomi and all the other atheists are mentioned in my prayers

[Carakeel]

Words well put ummmm and naomi! Among the cruellest and most deceitful people I have ever personally encountered have been several priests and nunns. In all fairness, I also knew some very good people who happened to be priests and nunns. To me, being a good person has nothing at all to do with religion or any God. There are good and bad people in the religious and the atheist communities, the difference being that atheists hold themselves responsible for their thoughts and action and do not use religion or a God as an excuse for their thoughts and actions.
Am off to bed, night night everyone! Sweet dreams! :o)

[ludwig]

// ludwig, when you say people do good in order to feel good about themselves, isn't that a definitional truth? "Good" must be defined by the person who does it (or by a religious text he/she also thinks is "good"), so it must imply something that makes you feel good? //

I'm just saying that we do what we think is right for our own reasons. Either because we feel an obligation or duty, or we enjoy doing it, or we'd feel bad about ourselves if we didn't do what we believe to be 'the right thing'.

When you analyse it though, they're all basically selfish reasons. Whether it's driven by a religious belief or not doesn't really matter.

[bigbadmarty]

ludwig your so right - hows things

[naomi24]

//...we do what we think is right for our own reasons. Either because we feel an obligation or duty, or we enjoy doing it, or we'd feel bad about ourselves if we didn't do what we believe to be 'the right thing'. //

I disagree. Genuine compassion doesn't result from obligation or duty, or from the prospect of personal enjoyment or reward. As I said, some people help others simply because others need help.

[RATTER15]

Ive done many things that I haven't necessarily enjoyed doing, I done it because someone needed a favour or some help, im sure everybody else has as well.

[beso]

Something I always found interesting is that Mother Teressa died with a sense that she hadn't done enough. That seems a terribly sad thing to me.

[RATTER15]

She had certainly done enough! she convinced millions that wearing a condom was sinfull and that they caused aids.

[jomifl]

Sandy..got any shillings left? if you have you won't go to heaven ;-)

[ludwig]

// I disagree. Genuine compassion doesn't result from obligation or duty, or from the prospect of personal enjoyment or reward. As I said, some people help others simply because others need help. //

I'm not saying people go through a conscious 'what's in it for me' thought process when deciding to do something that's good or not.

// As I said, some people help others simply because others need help. //

Yes, and because they believe it would be wrong not to help someone who needs help.

[jno]

I agree with ludwig, but I'm not sure it gets either of us anywhere. We're saying people are good because they think it's good to be good. It seems a circular argument.

[naomi24]

Ludwig, //Yes, and because they believe it would be wrong not to help someone who needs help. //

No. Some people - but by no means all - really do genuinely help people simply because they need help. It's called compassion and there is no further thought. They have no ulterior motive. People are all different, and it really is a mistake to judge everyone by one's own standards.

jno, //We're saying people are good because they think it's good to be good. //

See above.