being good through desire or fear...

[joko]

does being good only because your religion tells you to because you wont get to heaven etc if you dont - and therefore is through fear rather than actually wanting to be good - count as genuine goodness...?

are some religious people therefore not 'truly' good in the heart and soul, seeing as theyre just following orders...?

so are the people who are not at all religious yet good of heart and soul because they want to be, the real saints iin the world?

obviously i mean SOME, not all...

[jno]

Sounds a bit like Clockwork Orange - can you 'be good' if it's involuntary?

The thing is I'm not sure what 'being good' is. (As opposed to 'doing good'.)

If you're nice to your neighbours, is that real altruism, or because you hope your neighbours will be nice to you in return?

If you give to a cancer charity, is it really disinterested, or is there some thought in the back of your mind that cancer could affect anyone... therefore it could affect me... therefore it makes sense to give to the charity because I might need it some day?

[atrollope]

Its a conundrum all right,and too deep for this wee hour(and me)
I once heard that when the power of the Book of Revelation began to fall out of fashion,a leading Bishops comment was that it was bad for business.

[joko]

yes it does indeed.

being good is not just good deeds, its as much what you dont do as it is you do do...thou shalt not...etc

what often seems altruistic, when analysed often isnt at all

[naomi24]

There are countless non-believers who, quietly and without expectation of reward, do a great deal of good in this world because they genuinely care about their fellow man. I think people who truly believe in eternal punishment do feel compelled to 'be good' and often to 'do good', whether that comes naturally to them or not. Just the other day someone said he was scared of not having done enough good things in this life to get to heaven, so he's clearly under some pressure - and I know a Christian who firmly believes she is going to heaven, but admits she helps people so that they will like her. Maybe she thinks her God will be hoodwinked too.

[Mosaic]

being good all the time is important because if you are not good you will make baby jesus cry.

[bibblebub]

I get the impression that a lot of religious people equate morals with religion so that if you don't follow their particular beliefs then you are a person with less or no morals. The reality is that many of them are amongst the most hypocritical people that you are ever going to meet.

[cazzz1975]

I used to go to catholic school, they used to put the fear of god into everyone, if you whistled, or misbehaved, you made mary/jesus cry, if you told lies your soul would go black, confession was a regular thing, I used to feel obliged to make up sins because the priest seemed to think there was more than what i actually confessed to.

its quite scary when i look back at it now

[naomi24]

^^ And people wonder why I despise religion.

[ummmm]

Lying in confession was common. None of us were bad enough to have anything to confess. So we made up our sins.

Atheists have a confidence that many religious people do not have. They know they are good people through choice...not through guilt. And certainly not through fear...

[ummmm]

Actually, I liked to know if anyone went into that confession box and said 'Bless me Father for I HAVEN'T sinned'

[ludwig]

You could argue that every act is ultimately selfish whether it's prompted by religious obligation or just the sense of having a moral obligation.

What I mean is that when we do a good deed, it's either because it makes us feel good about ourselves, or because we know we'd feel bad if we didn't do it. Either way, there's a reward in it for us somewhere.

Only a robot can be truly selfless.

[cazzz1975]

I think most people are good, its a little unfair to imply that its forced through fear, religion is a very strong influence, it is drilled into you from birth, these people would almost certainly been good without the threats im sure.

[cazzz1975]

I bet they wouldnt have dared to ummm :o

[ummmm]

I agree to a certain extent Ludwig...But people also do good deeds on instinct.

[naomi24]

I agree Ummmm. I think many people help others with no thought of reward, but simply because others need help.

[RATTER15]

Carakeel has posted certain things on here before I believe about the things that happened to her at the hands of Nuns and Priest's whilst in a Catholic boarding school, if there is a Hell, I truly would like these nuns and priests to rot there for an eternity!!

While visiting a monastery in Greece as we walked through the main gates we were confronted by a load of Monks stoning a dog that had wandered through the gates, if it wasn't for the fear of arrest in a foreign country I would have thrown every stone back at the Monks.

And many Christians think they have a monopoly on Morals, they make me sick!!

[RATTER15]

>>>Atheists have a confidence that many religious people do not have. They know they are good people through choice...not through guilt. And certainly not through fear... <<< Well said ummm

[naomi24]

It's not just Christians who think they have a monopoly on morals, Ratter. ;o)

I read a post this morning from a Christian about another ABer that was clearly a deliberate misrepresentation - and not nice at all - and it happens frequently, particularly when the subject happens to be a non-believer. Fortunately, someone else picked up on it and set the record straight. A Christian conscience? What conscience?

[beso]

The good people of religion are not good because of their religion but depite their religion.

[ummmm]

I think I know what you're referring to Naomi.