Are there Valid Reasons for Atheism?

[Elderman]

Do the world’s injustices—including those instigated by hypocritical religionists—prove that there is no God?

[jomifl]

Sith, If I meant it to be a joke it still wouldn't be funny.

[LazyGun]

@ Sith Please point out where I said you would become a terrorist? Are you aware of what the phrase "in extremis" means?

Let me clarify for you, so there is no doubt. Fundamentalist and zealous belief in a religion can lead to a belief that sacrificing your own life in the hope of advancing the objectives of your religion is a good thing. This is true, is a fact.

Such strongly held beliefs often lead to a rejection of evidence, a rejection of reality, and induces a sense of victimhood - such feelings are often used and manipulated by ruthless individuals to create fundamentalist belief, which in turn can lead to individuals being willing to sacrifice their lives in the belief that they are advancing the cause of their religion.

When I write these things, I am not directing them at you personally. So no, I am not calling you a terrorist, and frankly thats a pretty facile argument to use.

I do think it interesting that you reject evidence presented to you in favour of your faith.

[naomi24]

Sith, //even when i have researched it just now on the supposed called islamic sites it doesnt provide any real evidence. //

Perhaps you should try some anti-Islamic sites - or even read Islamic literature for yourself. It's all there for anyone who wants to read it. What you have to remember is that with all religions, the teachers only tell you what they want you to know. They conveniently leave the rest out.

[LazyGun]

Does it satisfy some sense of superiority to comment on a thread you supposedly have no interest in Steve? Otherwise why make such a snide comment? If you feel the topic uninteresting, why are you contributing?

[sith123]

yes lazygun, in extremis means in extreme, so you were saying that in exteme circumstances, however you would not have mentioned it without a reason, therefore you were hinting at it.

ok, naomi, i have read the quran for myself and tell me this which you have failed to mention. Even if Muhammed kept "sex slaves" islam was one of the first religions to stop the torture of slaves and to set slaves free. to be truthful, i have never interpreted it in that way but considering that all muslims follow the quran, that means we would still have slaves now and will still be torturing them, which we do not. we were actually the first to support equal rights for men, women and all different races like black people. European countries only game these rights recently within the last 100-200 years.

[LazyGun]

@Sith- your interpretation of my comment says more about your defensive reflex when it comes to your religion than anything I said.

As a secularist, I see little evidence of equality for women in, for instance, Saudi Arabia. So much for your religion promoting equal rights.

Religion promotes unchanging dogma. True believers distort reality and defend the indefensible, because everything they see is distorted by the prism of their faith. Believers rarely are able to be objective about their faith, which is why it is difficult to ever have a rational discussion with the religious.

[sandyRoe]

Why would any slave owner torture one of his assets? And manumission, for the property owner, is like throwing you money away.

[sandyRoe]

* your money away

[jomifl]

Sith, Mohammed was a slave trader, 2 out of 3 slaves in his day were women and were enslaved solely for sex. A modern islamic slave trade still exists in Mauretania and Sudan. No joking!

[naomi24]

Sith, firstly, as I've said before, any Muslim who is circumcised (a 'must' in your religion) does not follow the Koran because that specifically forbids altering Allah's creation in any way. Secondly, if you want to learn the truth, you will never get it from people whose sole agenda is to promote Islam. After all our discussions, that surely must be evident to you by now?

[jomifl]

Sith, if you must be a muslim you do not need to be an apologist for, or a denier of, the many repugnant practices carried out in the name of islam.

[sith123]

yes, in the name of islam. just because a few muslims do it why are you telling me. if i really wanted to change my religion, i would not have accepted islam in the first place would i?

[sith123]

also naomi, about the circumcision, i have talked to you about that before and said that it was stated in the HADITH and the SUNNAH of prophet muhammed, not in the quran. however if i remember correctly when i told you about this before you did not understand, so i will attempt to again. Hadith is the sayings of muhammed and sunnah is his actions. some of the stuff that are not in the quran are in the hadiths and sunnahs and vice versa. do you understand now? i guess not.

[boxtops]

I think you are missing the point, sith. There are plenty of people in Islam (and indeed in other religions) who do things which the majority of rank and file peaceable Muslims (and others), including probably yourself, find unacceptable. They are not following the Qu'ran/Hadith, they are following their own interpretations of those - and you have no need to to justify their actions, any more than the majority of Christians used to be able to justify or defend the IRA in years gone by. We all know these things happen - we may not agree with them, we may be very averse to them - but we do not need to say "ah, that's the Faith though", and make excuses for their happening.

[sith123]

thanks boxtops

[naomi24]

Sith, you do not remember correctly, I understand completely, and you are still making excuses.

In saying ...

//Hadith is the sayings of muhammed and sunnah is his actions. some of the stuff that are not in the quran are in the hadiths and sunnahs and vice versa.//

...you seem to conveniently forget that the Koran is the word of God, so which is more important to follow? Allah or Mohammed? Listening to Muslims, I have to say I sometimes wonder.

[boxtops]

I've always understood that whilst the Qu'ran is indeed God's direct dictation, the Hadith are the reports of the actions undertaken by Mohammed and others to interpret those "rules" into daily life. So both can be correct, the one should complement the others, not contradict.

[naomi24]

Where circumcision is concerned, they definitely contradict, Boxtops.

[boxtops]

Yes, I can see that.